Veal stock is commonly used in professional kitchens to add richness and flavor to many dishes…from braised meats to stews...
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Hey Jude, don't be sad...
Take a brown stock and make it better...
Remember to not overthink this task...
Then you can start to make it better.
Da da da da da
da da da da
That's my lame attempt at getting you to relax about the stock making process. If only everyone was as enthusiastic as you are with your practicing.
#1 Usually the remouillage and initial stock are not combined as the remouillage - even though you say it tastes good - will weaken the color of the initial stock. Usually, a remouillage is used to add to stews or soups (rather than just plain water). If combining the two works for you, that's all that counts.
Don't over think your stock so much. Yes, skimming will make the stock clearer...but if you didn't get the chance to do it initially, don't worry about it. What is important is that you taste the stock and if you are happy with the results, then work to find a balance that works with you. Many kitchens start veal stock at night and leave it over night to simmer...and there is no one there to constantly skim and fuss over the stock.
#2 The smaller the bones, the easier it will be to extract the gelatin...but there is no need to get carried away. Obviously if the second stock was gelatinous, the bones were small enough. There will always be some matter in the marrow. It won't completely dissolve.
#3 - 14 hours is a long time. There is a point where you can over do it and the mirepoix will start to disintegrate and cloud the stock. Raise the temperature so there is slight activity going on in the pot. This was discussed in this thread. Get out of the habit of using a thermometer to make stock and trust yourself by looking at the indicators. You might want to review the lesson on Submersion Cooking Methods, Topic 5 (Simmering). You are making some good observations, but again, don't over think it.
#4 It's hard to say what the brown thick stuff was. It could be impurities stuck on the bottom of the pot, which is why it is best to not stir stock while it's cooking and to gently remove the bones and mirepoix before straining. Experiment and see. Strain some with a strainer or cheesecloth and strain some with the cloth that you are using. See if you can notice a difference in the flavor, color and clarity. Don't press solids through the strainer - this can add bits of mirepoix which will cloud your stock.
Last question - Interesting set up that you have rigged up to keep a constant temperature. Review the simmering topic. The bottom of the pot will always be hotter as it is in direct contact with the heat source. The main thing is to just make sure your stock isn't BOILING! A light simmer is ok. Don't worry so much about it.
My one bit of advice is to make smaller batches. I know for veal stock this is probably not worth it, but a white or dark chicken stock is just as good (if not better...at least we often do it here). We don't want to scare people away from making stock because it doesn't have to be such an ordeal. A couple of leftover carcasses are enough to get a small pot of stock on on a regular basis...and it's literally pain free. We also find that with smaller batches sometimes you don't even need to freeze them. Just keep them in the refrigerator and use it fresh as you need it throughout the week.
Good that you are tasting things. You'll begin to understand what to and what not to incorporate into your cooking.
Okay, after all that, I hope you also aren't having "stock" nightmares. Put your feet up and get some rest. You are cut off on the stock questions for a while (just kidding)...but really, don't over think it so much. You are leaps and bounds ahead of most cooks out there by just making your own stock. Cheers!
Indeed you can make a lamb stock. Just be aware that it will obviously have a strong lamb flavor to it so it won't necessarily be as versatile as a basic chicken or veal stock. You can also make a short stock with the bones or even mix the bones with some veal bones to reduce the stronger lamb flavor (though it will still definitely still taste of lamb).
In this recipe for lamb taster there is a step on lamb short stock. You may also want to watch the lessons on Stock Making Fundamentals and Making Short Stocks. Cheers!
I notice in this video in particular, but caught it also in several other videos, that the knife being used to cut the mirepoix (even the smaller pieces of celery) is lifting off the cutting board between each cut. Send them back to school! :-)
I've started making my first beef stock (1 hr in so far) and came across a problem:
1. I read the thread above, but am still not clear on something. I have fairly big beef bones I'm using for my stock (bigger than my fist), I'm not sure these bones will get smaller, assuming they don't, then by adding water to above the bone levels, I don't know how I can reduce the stock by half, since I keep adding in water. What am I missing here?
2. The videos seem to show a pretty strong simmer (looks almost boiling?) is that the right amount of heat? I found I have to keep lowering the heat to prevent a full boil, right now I'm on my induction stove's lowest setting, so I see a bubble or two every few seconds --- Is this too low? First time trying this!!
3. My pot wasn't very large, so I used 2 big beef bones, plus the mirepoux (around 2-3:1 roughly (half onion, 1/4 carrot,1/4 celery), and added in 5 L of water. I hope this works, please let me know asap if something is wrong here so I don't end up ruining it!
Thanks, you convinced me to finally try this.
Beef bones are naturally large. The bones will not shrink during cooking. You need to keep the bones and mirepoix covered with water during the simmering process. The reduction comes after you make the stock and strain it. It is THEN reduced to concentrate the flavors. At this point, it can simmer a bit briskly but NOT during the stock making process as you'll wind up with a cloudy stock. Stocks should always be simmered during the cooking process.
The amount of stock is all relative to the size of pot and ratio of bones to mirepoix you choose to use. 2 beef bones doesn't sound like a lot for 5 L of water but keep going. You will still be flavoring water which is the point. Stock making takes some practice. It would be helpful if you watched (or rewatched) the lessons on How to Make Stock Fundamentals and Dark Stocks. Cheers!
Thanks Kim. I didn't realize that the reduction comes after straining, that makes sense now, and it's gonna be a lot easier after I strain it,for sure.
I have a 6L Stock pot, that I put the 2 beef bones + mirepoix, in total I had 5 L of water, so I probably added around 3-4L realistically (other stuff added to the volume). Is that still reasonable? It's all kinda eyeballing here, I guess you can never have too many bones in a stock???
I saw all of the videos a few times today, I may need to pick up a bigger pot it seems to be able to put in more bones. There's no way I could fit in 12 lbs of anything in my pots!! What size pots do you guys use?
It's been about 8 hrs now, so I'm gonna strain and reduce it. Hopefully there was enough beef flavour from those 2 bones, I guess I'll see once I reduce it and get it out of the fridge tomorrow.
Small stocks are fine...it's just a lot of work to go through, especially when you have to roast the bones, etc. to make this type of stock. It is worth it to invest in at least a 10-12 litre/quart pot if you are going to make stock on a regular basis - which you should if you are in the school! :)
Again, it takes practice. Keep watching, reviewing and following the basic stock-making steps and you'll be a pro in no time. Cheers!
Fair enough, it is a bit of work, I actually have 3 L of stock made, it tastes watery still, so I'll reduce to 1.5 L and hopefully that helps out. I'll consider getting a larger stock pot so I don't have to work this hard for hardly 2 L of stock.
Thx for the encouragement, I've never cooked something that took 8-9 hrs before, it's a bit crazy! I'll post back in the morning to report how it turned out.
Ok,I check the stock this morning, turned out tasty - but not quite what I was hoping for, this is what happened:
1. The stock is not very thick, kinda watery, definitely not gelly like - is this b/c I only used 2 bones? Can you make a small stock with 2 bones or is there some minimum number? Did I add too much water (about 3 L) to the mixture?
2. The colour is nice & dark, but it's opaque -- can't see through it at all like a gravy, it's cloudy! When I was simmering, I found it did come to a boil a couple of times despite using low-med heat. Should I use the lowest heat setting on my stove next time? I can't sit there watching it for 8 hrs, so how do you avoid it reaching a boil? I had it on power levels 4-5, maybe I should have used 1-2 on my induction stove? Is 1-2 too low to get the flavour out of the bones? Never done a long simmer before until yesterday.
3. Given that it came to a boil during the simmer, I think that may have caused the cloudiness right? What about after you strain it, can you use a soft boil to reduce it? I reduced it by half on medium heat (5-6), which was a soft boil but then realized after maybe could have also caused an emaulsion of the oil & water? Is this possible after straining? Or does that only happen when you're actually making the stock? Reducing the stock on a very low heat level would have taken hours and I was tired at this point.....
Overall, not a bad first try or experience. Definitely need some guidance here on what to correct, and I'm gonna go and buy a larger stock pot (slim & tall) so I can use more bones without adding so much water which I think will make it more 'jelly' like.
Taste wise: the stock tastes very good compared to my campbell's that I have. So I'm happy to report that and I will happily use this in my beef stew today :) Will have to give it another go when I finish the stock.
Your stock is not gelatinous because you used so little bones to water. Refer back to the lesson on Stock Making Fundamentals, where we talk about the amount of water to use (just to cover plus a bit).
The stock can come to a simmer but just not the boil; otherwise it will become cloudy. Also, make sure you've skimmed the impurities as they rise to the surface.
You don't have to stand over a pot of stock, but you do need to baby it and keep an eye on it to control the temperature. Once it just comes up to a simmer, turn it down as shown in the video.
The instructions in this recipe say to allow the stock to cool first so you can remove the fat cap before reducing the stock. There should not have been any fat left in the stock when you reduced it, so yes, if the fat cap was not removed, the stock can be greasy.
Veal/beef stock is a big process and one of the most time-consuming of all the stocks. When care is taken though, it is one of the most rewarding. It takes effort.
Review the videos again and again. You might also want to make a big batch of chicken stock - less cooking time but just as delicious. Keep on practicing and pay close attention to each step in the lesson on Stock Making Fundamentals. Have fun using the stock! Cheers!
Ah ok, I think did use the right amount water, but probably not enough bones... Getting a bigger stock pot will help getting more bones into the stock.
Temperature wise, next time I'll just keep it on 1-2 so it doesn't start boiling, that was the issue I was having.
I think I got mixed up about when to reduce the sauce. After I strained it, I then boiled to reduce it. I didn't cool it first, and now I realize I should have reduced it the next day. That would explain why it became so cloudy!!
I didn't realize going into this, it was such a huge process, now I know. I hope the reward is worth all of the trouble!
Next time I'll just do a chicken stock as you suggested since that's much quicker and less time consuming. Once I perfect that technique, then I'll try the beef / veal stock again, didn't realize I tried the hardest technique first, c'est la vie eh?
Thanks for your responses and the tips, hopefully next time will be a much better success! Back to studying for me --- feels like I am in school again!
As shown in the lesson on stock fundamentals, you can definitely use chicken backs to make stock; however, this is not what makes the stock cloudy. A cloudy stock is usually the result of boiling (not simmering) the stock. You can also start a stock with frozen bones - if you don't plan to roast them that is.
In terms of the beef bourguignon tasting winey, it could be a combination of the type of wine you used and how rich your stock was in flavor. Cheers!
The recipe calls for 8 to 10 L of water (part of which will evaporate and might be added again to cover the bones). The recipe also mentions to "cook the stock for approximately 9 hours, until it reduces by about 1/2" and the introduction states a 9L yield. I can't understand how I would obtain all that volume after evaporation. Thanks in advance!
Since I'm smoking salmon today (an all day process in which I have to keep a close eye on the smoker), it seemed like a good time to make a beef stock. I'm about 4 hours in on the stock, and it looks promising. Seems to have some nice flavours, but is watery tasting - a long way to go yet, so I expect that to change. I wish I'd reviewed the lesson before I started, though.
Thank you for the lesson. Looking forward to results.
Here's a question: What about canning it? It would have to be a pressure can due to protiens and no acid, so 75 minutes at 11 pounds, or so. Having gone to the effort of making the stock, I don't want to spoil it. I'm thnking the pressure can would make the stock boil in the jar, and I'm not sure if I would just end up boiling it out of the jar and losing it. So, if you have any thoughts before I experiment, I'd appreciate it. The motivation for canning instead of freezing is just to have it sitting there on the shelf looking pretty and ready to use when I get home from work with a craving for something special.
As yes, reviewing the lesson before one starts is generally a good idea, but I am sure you know that. I guess we all just get excited sometimes :-)
As for canning stock, we do not can our stock at Rouxbe; however, here is another thread that was started on this same subject. You may want to have a read through it as some Rouxbe users have attempted this and have also made several comments throughout that thread. Cheers!
just to tell you that i am cooking all my life and love it and at age of 64 i discover that i am not cutting oignon properly,but i am catching up.
tank you for your great school.
Now , can you please tell me how and how long i can keep my beef stock?
Sorry for my english, i am italian living in Italy and France, by the way if you need fois gras don't hesitate to hask me.