I've found the easiest way is to reduce it by about half and then measure it into zip lock bags of one or two cups. I use a canning funnel to pour into bags so that I don't soil the seal. Freeze them laying flat and they take up very little space. I'm sure you will use them up long before their storage expires. I don't know how long they would keep, but I would bet easily for 6 months.

I've made the dark chicken stock and now am planning the dark veal. It appears that most of the measurements are approximately double. I'm not clear on what 1/2 bunch of fresh thyme is (veal recipe) but since the chicken stock calls for 6 sprigs, I'm assuming that 12 sprigs will do. I grow my own thyme and don't know what a "bunch" would be. I've watched the video many times and only see the parsley going in so no clues there.Thanks for any tips!
Kathleen F.

The reason measurements such as "1/2 a bunch" are giving in these recipes is because the amounts are more like estimates, rather than exact amounts. Don't get too caught up in exact measurements when making stocks as you are merely trying to flavor the liquid with the bones and/or meat, a bit of vegetable from the mirepoix and a bit of herbs from the bouquet garni.

Once you become comfortable with making stocks, you will discover that they are quite fun to make. If I have leftover herbs, I store them in the freezer. Sometimes, I add 1/4 bunch and sometimes I add quite a bit more. It just depends on what I have on hand. But don't get too carried away. You don't want the stock to start tasting like a thyme flavored stock. It should still taste like chicken or veal or what ever kind you are making. Hope this helps to answer your bouquet garni questions. Cheers!

p.s. Not sure if you have watched the lesson on "How to Cook and Use Herbs" but if not, you might find that helpful as well.

This is a very educational thread. The personal experiences that other members share here answer so many of my questions. Special thanks to you Jude O. for your detailed reporting of your own experience (here and on other forums).

Last night I began my first beef stock. I've only been practicing with chicken stock thus far. After exploring the differences mentioned here on the site and referring to McGee on Food & Cooking, I picked up the bones from the supermarket and let it poach for some 16 hours. I didn't see much movement in the pot so I wouldn't call it a simmer.

Question 1. What I recall from other forum posts is that this is all right. I can say it looks good, the consistency is a bit thin, but that is prior to reducing. Any opinions about that?

When I had made chicken stock in recent months, I would skim and absorb the fat with a paper towel, then sift it through a strainer, then a fine plastic mesh old reusable coffee filter (cleaned of course), and finally through a tea towel. With all that, a fine film would still form on the surface of the reducing stock. I would skim that off too, although it did feel like it contained the desired sticky collagen for the gelatinous final product, which still was quite gelatinous.
I see that in the veal reduction lesson that there is a final straining of the reduction without mention of having skimmed any filmy scum from the reduction while it was reducing.

Question 2. Am I throwing away a bit of quality that should just be left there for a final sift?

In closing I just want to say that the reference to 'remouillage' appealed to my sense of getting the most value out of the process. In McGee on Food & Cooking, Chapter 11 Sauces, under the section entitled "Meat Stocks and Sauces", there is a subsection about single and double stocks. Apart from using the freshly made stock as the liquid to extract more flavor from a new "set of bones" for a double stock, he mentions using the bones from the first batch a second time, not for a separate stock in and of itself , but as the liquid used to extract flavor from a second batch. I quote: "The resulting liquid can then be used to start the next fresh extraction of meat and bones." Page 600, UK edition.

Thanks in advance. I look forward to feedback.
Jim

If making stock from raw bones, I'd simmer rather than poach, to extract the most flavour. A 16 hour poach for chicken stock seems a bit much. However, a remouillage can be poached because the bones have already been softened. Älso, a remouillage can be just as flavourful as the original, once reduced a bit. You can use it to start a new batch of bones, but that implies it lacks body. Not the case if made with patience and slightly reduced. At our school the students often can't tell the difference when a remouillage has been reduced a touch.

Q 2: Skim as often as you need to. Some of the flavour you may be leaving behind may not be ideal.

Thank you Tony.
The 16 hours was for beef stock, not chicken. I mentioned chicken only to say that I haven't yet made any beef stock. The result was very gelatinous and dark. The remouillage was poached and I was even able to pierce some of the bones here and there. The result was a litre of golden soft gelatinous liquid that I intend to use as the starting liquid for a second batch with fresh bones.
I'm glad you confirmed that I've been skimming properly.
Thanks again.

It's my first time making the veal stock. I'm excited to finally be doing this.

I'm pretty much following the recipe, but I've got a few questions:

1. I spent $43 (U.S. dollars) for 12lbs of veal bones at a local butcher in NYC. Is that a normal price?

2. Any thoughts on salting the mire poix and veal bones before they roast? Would that help to extract flavor or make it too salty in the end? I know salt in stock is "controversial."

3. The veal bones were still slightly frozen and a tad frosty when I used them. Will that adversely affect the end result?

Thank you

First off, let me say "congrats on your first time making veal stock".

Now to answer your questions:

1. Veal bones are generally more expensive than say chicken bones. As for what a fair a price is, it's hard to say. You could phone around to other butchers to ask them how much they are a pound.

2. Do not salt the mirepoix and/or bones as this could lead to a salty stock. As for adding a bit of salt to the stock, refer to the lesson on "Making Stock Fundamentals" for more information on this (in particular, topic 5 called "Adding Vegetables and Salt to Stock"). You may also want to review the other lessons on stock making as well. Particularly the lesson on making "How to Make Veal and Beef Stock".

3. As for using frozen bones, this is totally fine (as mentioned in Topic 3 of the "Stock Making Fundamentals" lesson). If however, you are planning to roast the bones, it is better to let them defrost otherwise they will simply steam rather than roast.

Good luck and happy stock making. Cheers!

I had two follow up questions. I hope they are not too pedantic.

Is it necessary to wash the onions (the recipe seems to imply that). It doesn't seem necessary since they get peeled.

Also, in the video it looked as if the carrots were peeled. Is that also necessary? I did not peel mine, just washed them rigorously. From what I understand most of the nutrients are in the skin.

Thank you very much!

Peeled-only onions are fine. Washed carrots are fine, however most cooks peel them. Nutrients will be lost after the long cooking period so you are looking for flavor really.

Don't get too hung up on things with stocks. Just try not to boil the liquid or you'll get a cloudy stock (still usable though).

Good luck.
Joe

And if I may bother you with one last question: my stock did not reduce at all and I cooked it at a light simmer overnight. I assume it's ok because I can reduce it later.

Stock does not necessarily have to reduce while it is cooking. Basically you are just flavouring water. With that said, you are correct, if you like, you can reduce it later to concentrate the flavours. Cheers!

I halved the beef/veal stock recipe and followed to the letter EXCEPT that I had to stop and put it in the ice bath after only 6-7 hours of simmering. Although it smelled heavenly during cooking (like French Onion soup), the taste after chilling was a little bland and it wasn't as dark as I expected. Is it possible that the shorter cooking time could have affected the flavor that much? Is there anything I can do to save it?

My stock is now in the fridge overnight to solidify the fat. After removing the fat, what is the best way to reduce it (boil or simmer, for how long) and will that concentrate the flavors more?

The shorter cooking time for these large bones could have an impact on the flavor of the stock, but the liquid is definitely more flavorful than water. The flavor will concentrate when you reduce it. You can simmer it until it reduces by half or even further (refer to Step 3). Once you start to cook with it, you will notice the flavor that it lends to the dish. Next time, plan ahead a bit more so that the stock can simmer for a good 9 hours+. Cheers!

This is my first attempt at making beef stock. I am doing okay so far but i have a question about the wine. I am not a wine drinker so could you please give suggestions for a good red wine and a white wine. I tried a recipe with white wine in it and I guess my choice of white wasn't exactly the best. It made my pan sauce taste a little off.

Thanks

Congratulations Patti on making your first stock. As for which wine to use, you are not alone with this question. In fact, if you search Rouxbe (top right of each page) you will find many discussions on this very popular subject.

Here is one thread in particular from Patrick O. that you might find quite helpful. Hope that helps. Cheers!

Would it be okay to make this recipe using only beef marrow bones? What part of the cow does a marrow bone come from, anyway?

Yes, this will work. Marrow bones come from the large bones of the cow, like the femur. I hope this helps!

There are times when I just want small amounts of stock for maybe a cup of chicken rice soup so what I have done is filled ices trays and frozen the stock that way and then all i have to do is just grab a couple, thaw and add my rice and maybe some left over chicken. It is an easy lunch without having to make a lot of food.

Those are great suggestions Patti. Thanks for sharing. It seems like you could do the same with tomato sauce and pre-cooked noodles.