Thanks, Kimberly. The video showed the drippings being discarded (and it looked like it was mostly fat, so maybe that's why), but since my roasting yielded about three times the volume of liquid with only 2/3rds of it being fat, I thought it would make sense to incorporate the good stuff instead of throwing it away. Maybe next time I'll deglaze the sucs with the non-fat portion of the drippings for an even more concentrated chicken flavor. Do you think adding the fat portion of the drippings to the stockpot might lend the stock more flavor?

Right, at the beginning of the deglazing video, the excess fat is poured off; but, this won't hurt the stock if it is added to the pot (along with any juices that have accumulated) before you deglaze.

As Chef Tony mentioned in another thread, "...keeping the fat in the stock would mean ladling more rendered fat, and some chefs clean out as much fat as possible. I prefer to keep it in because some of the flavouring agents of fat are water soluble. Chefs may keep it out, but grandmas keep it in."

It's really up to you whether to add it or not. There are no strict rules. The best way is to test each method out and see if you can tell the difference and also see if separating the fat/liquid beforehand is worth the extra step. Cheers!

Really helpful info! Thanks, Kimberley!

I made dark veal stock last night and have a question and a comment.

Question: Could you post a picture of what veal bones should look like when the stock is done? There's a lot of talk of hollow bones and some discussion of not being able to get "all the stuff" out of the bones. My bones were pretty broken down, and the insides were really soft, but there was still a healthy amount of matter inside them (though I suspect I may have gotten the gelatin out of them.

Comment: You should put in the lesson that the bones can explode while roasting (the joints, that is). Michael Ruhlman talks about it happening when he was learning how to roast veal bones for stock at the CIA in his book Making of a Chef. It happened to me when I was roasting my bones and I would have been very worried/surprised if I had not already heard of this phenomenon.

Love the site!
Adam.

Once the stock is done, the bones will look very much "washed out" and a lot of the brown color is gone. The stuff in the bones is a lot of marrow which is mostly fat. I always try to get the joint bones, that is where the gelatin/collagen is. In regards to the bones exploding, this has never happened to me, yet I can see that if some of the bones are not cut and the marrow is exposed, that marrow will expand during roasting and break up the bone. That is the only explanation I have on that. Hope this helps!

I unthawed some dark chicken about 1 week ago. Is it still safe to use & what is expected "shelf life" in the fridge?

Thanks

Refrigerated stock should be used within a few days...up to a week from when it is made. Make sure to bring the stock to a rapid boil for a several minutes before using to kill any potential bacteria. Once it has boiled, taste it to make sure it hasn't soured or gone off. If it seems fine, use immediately. Cheers!

I was wondering if it was really necessary to use just bones to caramelize, (or to just use with a basic white stock) or if I could just use whole parts of meat, and save the cooked meat?
Thanks for this great class!

I am not very clear on your question. If you are asking whether or not it is necessary to brown the bones when making dark stock, the answer is yes...the bones need to be caramelized to develop the rich flavor and dark color in the liquid.

You can go through the process of making a white stock and add raw bones to the liquid...BUT you can also add caramelized mirepoix. This no longer makes it a white stock, but by caramelizing the mirepoix, this will give the liquid some color and more flavor. Browning/caramelizing = more flavor/darker color. It is really up to you as to how much flavor and color you want to add. Does this help? Cheers!

Today I'm doing dark stock with all backs. I have followed instructions carefully especially temp. Question is, the stock is a very rust/dark orange color. I don't see the amount of foam to skim I did with the other stock I made. I'm not sure now if I am skimming fat or gelatin? thoughts?

The color is affected by the amount of roasting, the amount of carrots and tomato paste used so don't worry. As for skimming, only fat and impurities float to the surface. The gelatin is contained within the liquid and will become firm once the stock is completely chilled (it will liquefy once it is reheated). Dark stock is so yummy. Good for you for trying it out and stocking up! I see some delicious dishes in your future. Cheers!

Thanks, help here by staff really makes the process helpful.

Thank you

Hi again, well I made the dark stock with a couple mishaps. Had to drain excess grease from chicken twice as it was splattering everywhere. I think they didn't get as dark as they should have. Ice bathed, put in refrigerator, skimmed fat cap, then ran through strainer twice. Now I'm about two hours into reduction simmer. It just tastes like lightly flavored water. I can taste a hint of onions and the tomato paste but that's about it. So is this stock suppose to taste really really great like a finished product or just slightly better than water? For some reason, stock making just isn't working out for me. Thanks

is.

I think you may have answered your own question. If your gut tells you that you don't think you roasted the bones (and possibly mirepoix long enough), that could be one reason why your dark stock isn't as flavorful as it could be. Stock can be extremely flavorful...so much so that we often add a pinch of salt and drink it like tea!

Dark stock is definitely a longer process, and yes, roasting the bones can be a bit messy, but it's something that you as the cook need to determine if it is worth it or not. Your cooking will undoubtedly rise to a higher level with homemade stock - no question about it.

I can assure you that the process will become easier the more you do it. You also have to realize that with cooking, you may not nail every technique the first time. It takes practice over and over again. Cooks don't learn a technique, walk into the kitchen and automatically become pros at it. It takes time, so be patient with yourself. The stock you made will definitely add more flavor than water to the food you cook, so it wasn't a lost cause. Review the lessons in the stock section again, follow the attached supporting recipe and then start to make your own personal adjustments (if you like) each time you make a batch. Cheers!

I wonder if I skimmed too much when reducing. I took it out of the refrigerator and removed the fat cap, then I started to simmer it at low temp and saw a thin gel cap form. Should I have left that?

An tips on getting the stock brown like the video? Thanks!

Eric, I think you need to step back and take a deep breath and just relax :-) I think you are totally over thinking it.

The gel cap that formed is normal. It's the gelatine from within the stock that sometimes creates a little skin. It's okay to leave it, it's okay to skim it. It's not a big deal.

As for getting the stock brown like in the video. Next time, roast your bones and/or your vegetables a bit longer. Also, make sure you didn't crowd the trays as this can cause the food to steam rather than roast.

Again, once you make stock more than once or twice, you will get a better feel for what you are looking for and what it should taste like etc. Cheers!

I am over thinking because this is all brand new to me. I'm the master of pulling plastic on microwave meals. Thanks so much for your patience.

Hi I am going to attempt dark stock again. I had a hard time getting them browned last time. When I get the stock from my butcher it is frozen in large bags. Do you think I should wait until they defrost then let them sit in the refrigerator on a drying rack over a plate over night? they seemed really damp when they finally defrosted and I think that must be why I had to keep draining the pan and adding oil and why I think they steamed and never browned. Thanks

Excess moisture will cause the bones to steam, rather than roast, and the bones will wind up having to stay in the oven for a lot longer to achieve a dark, caramelized color as shown in the lesson. So, yes, let the bones thaw in the refrigerator. You can let them drain on a rack but you can even place the rack into a large roaster (and cover) so that no raw chicken juice drips on to any other food in the refrigerator.

Before roasting the bones, you can also pat them dry with paper towels (this is done with any type of protein before using a dry-heat cooking method). The drier the meat or bones are, the quicker they will caramelize/roast. Cheers!

I have a small oven which will take the only stainless steel baking pan I have that is 13" x 9". Will this pan be big enough to roast the 6 lbs of chicken necks that I plan to buy tomorrow? It seems like it is going to be too small.

Every cook needs to make adjustments based on the equipment available to him or her. If you have a small pan and a small oven, sounds like you'll need to cook the bones in batches. Overcrowding will only cause the bones to steam and it will take the bones longer than necessary to caramelize. You could also consider making a smaller batch of stock. Cheers!

I found a Stainless Steel 14-3/4" x 11-5/8" x 3-3/4" roasting pan online that I am having shipped 2-day shipping. Will this be big enough? What size pan do you recommend for the entire 6 lbs of bones? This will be as big as I can go. If I still need to cook in batches, I'll split it in half, as I would like to make the entire recipe. Should I simply set the cooked bones aside while the rest cook or should I cool and refrigerate them? Seems like the cooking of the bones is very important but only about 45 minutes per batch. Hopefully this new pan will accommodate in one step. I will go by what you recommend, and thank you so much for your help on this.

Sounds like your new pan might be large enough. Basically, the pan or tray should be big enough so that the bones can lay in a single layer, with a bit of space in between, so that they roast properly.

As for whether or not you need to refrigerate the bones, it really depends on how long they will be out. For food safety reasons, I would say, "yes, refrigerate them".

Ken, how long they will take to roast is not solely based on 45 minutes. You are looking for them to caramelize nicely, if that takes 30 minutes great, if it take over an hour, then that's what it takes. Everyones kitchen, equipment and ingredients are different.

If you are unsure of the process and you feel overwhelmed you may just want to make a half batch. This will still produce plenty of stock. It will also give you an opportunity to practice the stock making process another time. The more practice, the easier it becomes. Cheers!