I make my stock without the mirepoix just the bones. My theory being that the mirepoix flavor will be fresher if I add them to the stock at a simmer right before I use the stock.

Is there any merit to my technique.

I would say "to each their own". I personally do it the way we show in the lesson as it extracts more flavor from the vegetable but if you are happy with your results then that is what matters I suppose.

My only suggestion would be to make a short stock both ways and then do a taste test and see if you notice a difference or have a preference. Cheers!

Can you carmelize the bones and freeze them to use in a short stock at a later date?

I suppose you could caramelize the bones and then make the stock later. For food safety, just be sure you cool them properly before freezing them. Also you will want to make sure to deglaze the pan to release any of those delicious sucs. Cheers!

My stocks are coming out wonderfully with fuller, richer flavor. I live in a rural area and have trouble finding bones. Is it possible to carmelize and use bones that have been cooked?

Good thinking John. I personally do it quite often. After I make a roast chicken for example, I often roast the leftover bones and then make a small stock. You can also freeze the bones and save them up until you have a few more to make a bigger batch...up to you. Cheers!

I live in a large metro area and am struggling to find a resource for bones to make stock from. I called one butcher place which came highly recommended and, when I asked if I could acquire veal joints/knuckle bones from them the response was

"We're not boning out much lamb right now."

I've come up boneless at pretty much every turn, at least in the veal department.

If you can't find veal bones, don't worry. Start with chicken bones. If butchers aren't selling chicken bones, buy whole chickens and cut them up yourself. Chicken stock is delicious and is often preferred around here at Rouxbe. Cheers!

Thanks for the input, Kim.

As far as it goes, are there any 'rules of thumb' for type of stock vs type of meat.

What I'm specifically desiring to do is have some nice veal stock to fortify beer bourguignon.

What times would one definitely be better advised to use one stock over another?

Additionally -
the lesson mentions buying meat bone in and butchering at home. Isn't that a bit easier said than done for those of us who've never had to butcher anything?

There are no hard rules about which type of stock should go with a particular meat. Yes, often lamb bones would be used to make a lamb short stock...to then be served with lamb or duck bones for a duck short stock etc etc. But as I said there are no absolutes. That being said, I suppose I would not generally use duck bones to make a short stock that I would then serve with lamb.

Here at Rouxbe Central the stock we always have in the freezer is chicken stock, both dark and light and lots of it. I made a beef bourguignon last week and I used a beautiful rich dark chicken stock and they go beautifully together. In fact I generally prefer dark chicken stock to veal stock.

As for your question about butchering the bones yourself, it can be done. If you are just cutting up the bones that is fairly easy. If butching yourself you will need to practice. There are video on Rouxbe that you can watch that will walk you through the process. So what if you don't do it right the first few times. It's not like the meat or bones will go to waste. Just be safe and go slow.

Hope this helps - cheers!

Thanks, Dawn.

I'll look again for the butchery video. I did see some general cut things mentioned in the premium steaks section.

David currently we do not have a lot for beef or butchery an large parts of an animal. When we mention butchery something for stock making we are generally talking about poultry or just breaking down the bones yourself as most people will not know how (or have the desire) to do more than that.

Here are a couple of links to butchering chicken and duck that you might find helpful. Cheers!
http://rouxbe.com/tips-techniques/2-how-to-butcher-a-whole-chicken
http://rouxbe.com/tips-techniques/166-how-to-butcher-a-duck

Thanks, Dawn!

What about using bones that have been grilled? For instance, bone-in rib-eyes, cutting the bone off before serving. I sometimes get a great price on a whole rib, and I butcher it, cutting the bones off some of it, and then cutting it into steaks and small roasts. Would the stock be enhanced by grilling, the same as if it were roasted?

Sure why not, better than throwing them out. You can always give it a try and see how you like the flavor...just make sure the bones are not too big. Cheers!

I plan to try making a stock in a few days, after I round up the ingredients. As I also have had a hard time finding chicken parts and bones, I plan to buy a whole chicken like you suggested. After stock is finished can I cut off the meat and add to soup? I've heard that breaking the bones releases the marrow which is very nutritious. You don't specifically mention this, but would it be a good thing to do, even when using precooked carcass bones? Finally, is just plain white cooking wine from the grocery store ok instead of 'dry white wine'?

Yes you can use the meat from a broth and add it to a soup and other dishes (as shown in the lesson on "How Make Broth" and also in the lesson called "How to Make Broth-Based Soups").

As for breaking down the bones, this is not really necessary, especially with chicken bones.

White cooking wine is often more tart (and sometimes even salty) than dry white wine. You will need to experiment to see which one your prefer, but we do not use "cooking wine" from the grocery store.

Good luck with your stock making. Cheers!

i make my stock the way it is made in the lesson

I was recerntly re-reading my copy of The Art of French Cooking by Julia Child and I noted that in almost every case when a recipe called for 'wine' she always used a dry white vermouth. Inexpensive, and makes great martinis too!
chas

Here's a question. I'm just curious. Can one make a short white stock? I mean without caramelizing the bones but cutting them up into smaller bits as is done for short stock? Would that be a recommended thing to do?

Definitely, you can make a white short stock. It's really just like making a regular white stock - the bones and mirepoix are just cut up even smaller to reduce the cooking time. Cheers!

Most definitely, dry white vermouth can be substituted for dry white wine. Cheers!

Are there any advantages to making a regular dark stock vs a short stock besides volume? Having found out about short stock, I would rather not spend 8 hours making dark stock ever again.

Also, if you are having trouble finding less-common bones, try looking for a carniceria or a Mexican or other ethnic grocery store. My local butcher told me he could order chicken necks and backs for me but I had to get a minimum of 40 lbs. Meanwhile, I was able to get 12 lbs of chicken necks from a Mexican grocery store for US $0.99/lb.

The volume of stock is the main difference. You can make excellent short stocks, full of flavor and gelatin. You will just have to make them more often if you plan to incorporate stock into a lot of your cooking. Smaller pots of stock are easier to handle and don't seem as overwhelming, especially for the home cook. Great tip for people on where to find bones. Cheers!