I noticed that a veloute (15-30 min.)is simmered longer than a bechamel (10-15 min.) Is there a reason for this?

Velouté sauce can be simmered a bit longer because the liquid is a stock rather than dairy (milk). Milk has a higher propensity to split if cooked too long on direct heat. This is not to suggest that you can't cook the béchamel a bit longer - just keep on eye on it.

One other thing to note: you are cooking both sauces to cook out the starchy flavor from the flour. A bit longer cooking time is a good thing especially if you are going to use the sauce right away (as opposed to using it in another dish that will be cooked longer like lasagne).

1-Can a broth be used instead of a stock to make a veloute

2- As for monter au buerre or liason for the veloute, does the same go for the béchamel as far as adding it just before serving? (so it doesn’t split)

3- Just like the veloute should the béchamel be stored unenriched?

thanks

Carmine

Seems like you know what you are talking about...trust your instincts because you are on the right track...all of the questions you asked...you gave me the answer...yes is the answer to all 3 questions. Nice work!

When tempering the veloute the cold stock is whisked into the roux right away while when making bechamel we let the milk break the vapor before moxing, why is it done differently?
Also, can we use brown stock for veloute? It wouldnt be a white sauce then...

Great job guys, I'm having lots of fun learning here. Thank you all.

It can be done both ways - we're just showing two different techniques. The only real difference is one sauce uses stock and one uses milk.

Veloute is classically a white sauce. That being said, if you choose to use a brown stock...just make sure of at least two things: 1) the dish looks appealing; and 2) it tastes good. If you find that it has both, go for it. Cheers!

This might seem sacrilegious but can I freeze the base veloute, or should it always be made fresh?

Because veloute is made using stock instead of milk, as with a bechamel, it will freeze quite well. Slowly reheat and whisk to ensure it is smooth.

If you are going to enrich the sauce with cream do this after you thaw it and reheat it otherwise the sauce could split. Hope this helps!

According to Wikipedia,
1. Velouté
2. Allemande,
3. Béchamel, and
4. Espagnole,
are the sauces of French cuisine that were designated the four "mother sauces" by Antonin Carême in the 19th century. The French chef Auguste Escoffier would later classify tomato, mayonnaise, and hollandaise among mother sauces as well.
So it's
1. Veloute
2. Allemande
3. Bechamel
4. Espagnole
5. Tomato
6. Mayonnaise
7. Hollandaise
So is it really 7 not 5 Mother Sauces?
Why do others consider Vinaigrette as a Mother sauce also.

The five main mother sauces for "hot sauces" are classified as bechamel, veloute, espagnole (brown), tomato and hollandaise. There is also a category of butter sauces, which are warm emulsions. There is another category of "cold sauces/emulsions" which include vinaigrettes and mayonnaise. It is not so important to get hung up on the numbers in each group, as many sources will indicate different things. What is important is to understand the components of each of these main sauces and how they are made. For example, Allemade is actually based on a veloute sauce that is made from chicken or veal stock. Lemon juice and a liason is added and that sauce is then used to create many other variations. Mornay is simply bechamel + cheese.

Once you understand the basics of each sauce, any sauce made after that is just a variation. Recipes are really no longer needed because you understand how you can vary each main sauce. Hope this helps!

you can freeze the veloute sauce. It will not curld after heating it up because it is made with stock instead of milk. It will freeze really good for you. Slowly reheat and whisk slowly while reheating it. Make sure it becomes smooth texture insted of lumpy mixture.
by Leann Gibson

I took the lesson last night and then made it using dried red chile as my aromatic to go with grilled chicken:

http://www.nibblemethis.com/2011/01/grilled-chicken-with-red-chile-veloute.html

It was exceptional, I can't believe I haven't been using this base recipe way before now!!! One of my favorite lessons so far, I'm loving what I'm learning at Rouxbe! Keep up the inspiring work.

What a great job, Chris! Nice to see students practicing their skills and creating their own, wonderful-looking dishes. I'm sure our invite just got lost in the mail :-)

What do you have to do to ensure the Veloute ends up with that nice velvety texture and look?

To achieve a velvety texture and look when making a veloute sauce it really just comes down to focusing on the key skills and techniques taught in the veloute lesson. Then most importantly head into the kitchen and start to practice what you have learned. Hope this helps. Cheers!

This was an interesting lesson. La Veloute sauce is some thing that looks like it will be in a future recepie for me.

In both the veloute and bechamel sauces, the videos talk about adding aromatics to the sauce. What is the difference between adding them to the sauce or adding them to the recipe you would be creating? Or is there a distinct reasoning behind that?

Example: If I am making chicken pot pie wouldn't it be easier to add aromatics when cooking the chicken/vegetables versus infusing it in the veloute sauce and then straining it?

The aromatics can be added to the sauce or added to the dish, it just depends on what you are doing and making. Your example would work perfectly fine. Cheers!

When adding aromatics to the Veloute sauce in the demonstration video the ingredients were added whole especially the garlic. Are these strained out before serving?

Yes, as shown in topic 6 (Seasoning & Straining Veloute Sauce), we do show that veloute is strained. Cheers!

I made a pot pie from veloute, but made too much so I stuck it in the fridge. Now my wife wants ANOTHER pot pie to take to a pot luck, so here's my question. If I wanted to use my leftover sauce to supplement the stuff I'm going to make tonight, when do I add it in? Do I add it slowly to the finished sauce?

Saute all of your mirepoix and then add the veloute. Really you just looking to heat up the sauce. Cheers!

I've made veloute several times with no problems, but this time it didn't work right... it ended up very thin and runny. I followed the base formula: 2 Tbsp butter + 2 Tbsp flour is enough to thicken 2 cups of beef broth. It was very thin. I added in another Tbsp of flour, but that didn't fix it. It made it BETTER, but still not good.

Any idea what I did wrong?

Wait a second, here's a thought. I wanted a brown sauce, so I cooked the flour until it was a bit darker. And an almost forgotten whisper just told me that the more I cook the flour, the less thickening power it has. So should I have used 3 Tbsp of butter/flour to the 2 cups of broth?

I guess maybe I answered my own question...

Nice work Matthew, indeed you likely just answered your own question. Way to figure it out for yourself. Keep up the good work. Cheers!

What the best ingredient to replace flour in a veloute recipe?

Thanks
Martine