How to Make Veal & Beef Stock

For dark stocks, could the mirepoix be caramelized on the stove top while the bones are caramelizing in the oven?

Just make sure to not overcrowd the pan, and if you are adding leeks, do so near the end.

For more on this watch the short stock lesson.

http://rouxbe.com/school/sections/17

I have wanted to make beef stock for awhile now, but I don't know what types of bones I should be asking for from the butcher?
I am guessing I need knuckle bones, but what else? What is the general pricing for bones?
One butcher had frozen bones? Are they suitable for stock or does the freezing process have any effect on the final product?

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

I'm going to come across as a noob here, but I can't believe I never thought of caramelizing the mirepoix on the stovetop. My oven is not big enough to properly roast bones and mirepoix simultaneously (not convection), so I find myself doing it in batches and it takes considerably longer to make stock. It's still worth all the extra work, but I should be able to shave some considerable time off the process by doing this.

For that, I thank you Paul B.

Marilyn frozen bones work just fine. I suggest maybe you watch the cooking school lessons on making stock, especially the lesson called How to Make Stock Fundamentals...this should answer many of your questions.

Could I use my stockpots pasta insert to put the bones and mirepoix? I would still put it through a sieve to remove smaller impurities, but wouldn't that just make it easier to remove all of the big stuff? Thanks in advance.

Keep Cooking
Riley Morgan

I am not sure exactly what you mean...sorry. Do you mean to that you want to cook the stock with the bones and mirepoix in the pasta insert? If this is what you mean then I do not recommend it as the bones and mirepoix will not have enough room to move about and release all of their flavor. Cheers!

Thanks, I guess it's easy enough to pull out the bones, and I like to take out the smaller mirepoix with a spider. Anyway, I've been making my own stock ever since and have no intention of returning to the reconstituted store-bought stuff. Ewww! I'd just like to thank you for sticking by me and answering all of my stupid question that I bombard you with. I promise I'll work on that, but I just like to ask alot of questions =)

Keep Cooking
Riley Morgan

I have a pot that has a spigot on the side toward the bottom. The pot is used for frying turkeys and I used it to make the beef stock. When the stock is done I just put a large pan under the faucet with a strainer in it and open the faucet. This has made it much easier to get the bones and mirepoix out.

Okay so I've done a pretty exhaustive search for veal bones here in Utah and come up empty handed. If I understood the lesson correctly, veal stock is preferred for its neutral flavor, which can be used with anything. In the absence of any veal available, should I just go ahead and make stocks for the various types of meat I’ll want to match like beef, pork, and lamb?

What about all those "processing plants" in Orem, etc.?

I've called every butcher, rancher, processing plant that anybody can recommend around here and even visited a few. No veal. I've got plenty of choices for beef, pork, and lamb, however. Apparantly, the veal we get here comes from California and their thousands of dairy farms. So much so that nobody raises it here.

One great thing about formally studying with Rouxbe is that it is forcing me to really get to know local recourses

Its the other way around.
I forgot the calfs are a product of this state. They are shipped out of here to the east - primarily - to fatten up and ...

i found a company that sells veal bones.they cost 122.00 for thirty pounds of bones . the web site is marxfoods.com

I had previously made veal stock on a few occasions following the approach described here and had great results. In the interest of doing something different, I tried Thomas Keller's French Laundry recipe for veal stock which calls for the use of a remouillage (second stock) and takes considerably longer. He also does not roast the bones and uses 2c (!) of tomato paste in the recipe. I think it was these two factors that led to a very disappointing result. The stock lacked that rich flavor provided by the roasting and had a noticeable flavor imparted by the tomato paste. In my veal stock challenge, it was Rouxbe 1, Keller 0.

Okay so I found a source of veal bones here in Utah. I really can't say where, but someone is being very generous to me on this one.

The problem is that it only comes in packages of 50 lbs. Which is a lot of bones. I was planning on making stock this weekend with them and the recipe calls for about 12 pounds worth. The bones are currently frozen, but it's not likely that I'll need to make stock again for a bit so I was thinking I should put them through the foodsaver and vaccum pack them before freezing them. Is this the best approach for preserving the bones? and how long can I keep them that way?

Vacuum packing does help to extend the shelf life and it also helps to prevent freezer burn. Ideally, use them within about 6 months or so. Happy stock making!

I don't understand how these are made to be "white" Please explain.

If the bones and mirepoix are not caramelized the stock is classified as a "white" stock. Also, often the mirepoix used in the stock does not contain any carrots if an extremely light colored stock is desired. Hope this explains it for you. Cheers!

I did not know how to make stock and this was very helpful and i feel tht it is something I will try.

I've made beef stock before, but not like this. This method looks a lot easier to make.

How long is the freezer life for the veal and beef stocks..

Stocks will last for several months in the freezer if stored properly. Though a good stock should be cooked with on a regular basis so there should be no time to worry about it becoming freezer burned :-) Cheers!

I am disabled so I want to cook for a weekend to last a few months at a time.. I am calling my butcher for bones in my next meat package.

i just finished making about 6 quarts of veal stock and the end product was quite gelatinous and thick. I monitored the temp while clinic which averaged about 180 and it never boiled. What did I do wrong or do I just need to add water? Thanks

A gelatinous stock is a good thing (see the lesson on How to Make Stock Fundamentals - in particular once the stock has been cooled). Has your stock already been cooled or was it gelatinous even while it was hot? If it was cold then that's great, if however it was gelatinous while it was still hot it likely means that you needed to add more water. Hope this helps. Also, don't forget to review the other stock lessons as well. Cheers!

The stock only became gelatinous once it was cooled so I guess it was a success !!

I AM GOING TO TRY FREEZING SOME IN ICE CUBE TRAY'S, THEN PLACING IN A FREEZER BAG FOR THE SMALLER RECIPES. THEN IT IS EASIER TO PULL OUT ONE OR TWO CUBES WHEN YOU NEED IT, WHAT IS LEFT I WILL FREEZE IN BIGGER CONTAINERS . JAN

I made the Veal stock and it came out just as discribed, it's gelatinous and dark, I've already used it in the Pork with morel-calvados sause, Ox Tails and beef stew. this is a very good site money well spent, thank you.

On to the next Lession

I made beef stock and cooled it over-night in the frige. The grease did come to the top and got hard just like the lesson, however, the stock was not gelatinous at all. What when wrong and can I still use the stock?

You likely did nothing wrong, so don't worry. You may even want to read through the discussion threads (on all of the stock lessons) and you will see that many others have had this same concern. Let us know if you still have questions. Cheers!

The bones and mirepoix are roasting as I write this, however, I'm a bit confused about some Step 2 instructions. In one paragraph it says to "simmer 8 - 10 hours, skimming and adding more water, as needed to keep the bones covered". A bit further along it says to "cook . . . until it reduces by about 1/2". So my question is: at what point do you stop adding water to keep the bones covered? Surely if the stock is to reduce by half, much of the bones will be exposed.

Thanks for the catch! If you are referring to this text recipe for veal stock, the text has been updated. Step 2 now reads, "Cook the stock for approximately 9 hours". During this period, the bones and mirepoix should always be covered with water so the most flavor can be extracted.

In the next step, Making the Stock Reduction, the liquid is reduced by about 1/2. Hope this is clearer now. Happy stock making! Cheers!

I have some lamb necks and beef marrow. I know these would not have a neutral flavour like veal but are they stil suitable to make a stock with? I assume lamb neck would not take 10 hours and would be more like chicken stock in timing? Thanks

You can indeed use alternative bones to make a stock. See the lesson on "How to Make Short Stock" for more information on this. You are also correct that if the bones are not too big then the cooking time will be shorter. Cheers!

I made the veal stock on Sunday. It took all day but was well worth it. The stock turned out great. I did not reduce it the second time as I ran out of time. It jelled up nicely. I cut it in squares and put them in vacuum bags. My freezer is full of bags. Can't wait to try it in something. Next week I am going to make light chicken stock. Hey I may need a bigger freezer if I keep doing this. Thank You.

I just finished the lesson on veal and beef stock and wonder if it's also called a demi-glace or is it part of a demi-glace (veal stock and brown roux)?

Great question Kevyn.

Classically, a demi-glace is actually a combination of veal stock and sauce espagnole (one of the five mother sauces) which is then reduced down by about half of it's original volume.

Today, in most professional kitchens a demi-glace is often just a reduced down version of the brown veal stock. It is very concentrated and when child, it actually forms into a jelly or "glace" (note: when making this, be sure not to salt your stock as the process of reduction would result in a very salty end product).

Here's a definition from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demi-glace

Here is a recipe on Rouxbe for Demi-glace: http://rouxbe.com/recipes/81

When reducing the veal stock into Demi Glace the video says to reduce under medium heat, it looks in the video like a slow boil. Is it simmered to reduce by half or a slow boil. Any idea of the approximate temperature I should reduce it at? I plan onmaking a batch of Demi Glace for the first time and dont want to ruin it.

Simmer or a slow boil will both do without compromising flavour, as long as any scum accumulating at the surface can be skimmed and not re-emulsified into the reducing stock. However, some theorize that reducing at a bare simmer is preferable, though I have not seen much or any difference.

The good - no - the great - news is that you are making your first Demi Glace. Welcome to the club!

are we able to also make a meat glace out of chicken stock by reducing it in the same manner as demi glace? I have purchased a product called jus de poullet which is chicken based glace which is pretty good.

I don't know this product, if you reduce it, it may be too salty. You can certainly make your own roasted brown chicken stock and then further reduce it until you are satisied with the consistency. Actually many restaurant use chicken bones this way as they are more readely available than beef or veal bones.

i made my first batch of veal stock to make demi glace. I used 15 lbs of veal bones, i used a 25 qt stock pot and i needed 12 qts water to cover bones and miripioux. after simmering for 10 hours and skimming and retopping water to cover bones as it cooked I ended up with 6 quarts of stock which jelled up nicely once chilled down. my question is it normal to
only get approx 6 qts after cooking and straining 12 qts original liquid? it already has a viscosity to it already as I am doing the reduction to make demi glace now. also when cleaning the stock pot I see that some of the miripioux on the bottom of the stock pot was blackened, i dont taste any bitterness in the flavor of the stock. Is it normal for that to happen and if not how should i avoid it. I wasnt stirring the contents of the stock pot as it was very large and bones very big and heavy. When i make chicken stock I normally place miripioux in after bones, this recipe has me placing bones in after miripioux, can i place bones in first and miripioux after with good results. I am in process of reducing the stock by half which I will end up with about 3 qts demi glace once done.

The amount of liquid seems about right. Along with evaporation/reduction of the liquid and the fact the the ingredients absorb some of the water, you will always wind up with less.

With regards to the scum on the bottom of the pot, this is normal - some impurities will stick to the bottom. It is important not to ever stir the stock to keep it clear (see lesson on Stock Making Fundamentals).

In regards to the order of recipes, don't over think it. Providing the stock is kept at a very gentle simmer, it doesn't matter if the ingredients are added in stages or one component at a time. You can certainly add the roasted bones and then the roasted veg but it is not necessary. What is important is that you are cooking the stock slowly and extracting the flavors. Enjoy your demi! Cheers!

i ended up reducing the stock by half and ended up with about 9 cups (2 qts 1 cup) which i ladled into ice cube trays for portioning, chilled them down quickly and am now freezing so I can place in food storage bags in freezer. The reduced glaze jelled up very quickly. it seems like alot of water and ingredients for this small of final product but the flavor seems good and I am looking forward to trying the glaze out in something.

Can I make a similiar glaze from chicken stock, does chicken stock form a jell or glaze like this when reduced to the same degree?

Yes, we often make dark chicken stock over veal stock and reduce it. Chicken stock is just as gelatinous and it is super delicious. Cheers!

i reduced it down by half and poured strained glace into ice cube trays. i ended up with 2 qts 1 cup (9 cups) final product. The flavor seems good and I look forward to trying it in a dish.

if i reduce chicken stock in the same manner will it form a jelled glaze like the veal stock does? I cook alot of chicken dishes and that would add alot of flavor to them. also would adding unflavored gelatin to chicken stock help the stock forming a silky glaze consistancy?

Yes, gelatin is gelatin. With a proper amount of chicken bones to liquid, you will obtain a gelatinous chicken stock. Unflavored gelatin should not be added to stock. It will not make it more gelatinous once it is hot. Unflavored gelatin is used to set cold items. Happy practicing! Cheers!

I made beef stock, it’s been simmering now for 15 hrs.. I used 9 lbs of knuckle bones that were cut in half. I used 1.5lb of Onions/Leaks, .75lb(each) of Carrots and Celery and I also through 6 heads of garlic in. I caramelized everything, the veggies made the house smell good, the beef bones did not. Used cold water, slowly brought the water up to 205.. and simmered and skimmed for 15hrs and counting. I've been tasting it on the way and this morning it seems to have a slight metallic taste. I’m using an All-Clad SS Stock Pot... I've done many batches of dark chicken stock that always comes out perfect, though I've never simmered this long before. The only other major difference besides the bones I'm using is that I don't use tomato paste in chicken stock. I used Muir Glen Organic Tomato Paste... could it be the metallic taste from the can, or that I'm simmering longer. I read somewhere that you shouldn't use SS for long simmering but galvanized aluminum, any truth to that ?

All clad SS stock pots are of good quality, so I do not think this is the issue. I wish I could be in your kitchen and really taste it. It seems to me that all you have done is correct. The only thing that comes to mind is the garlic. There is a lot of it and if it was over-caramelized, it can affect the flavor. The bitterness of it is perhaps what you refer to as a metallic taste. Sorry for the little help I am able to bring, but this is all that I can think of.

SS will not lend metallic taste. Sometimes very long cooking of celery can simulate the metallic taste, or over-browning the vegetables and bones. Also, some breeds of meats have a metallic flavour, for instance New Zealand lamb does taste a bit tinny.

One way to minimize the mineral flavour of bones is to cook them for 4-6 hours, strain, then start with a new mirepoix, and cook the bones again with fresh cold water for another 4-6 hours. And let's not forget the water itself - your tap water may have mineral residuals that concentrate in flavour when reduced.

Try it again without the celery and in two seperate batches and compare results.

Thanks Christophe and Tony !!

I added the Leaks and Garlic halfway.. I did make that mistake before on Chicken Stock so I don't think i over caramelized them but... I'm no where near perfect. I thought about straining after 2hrs... I'll do that next time after 6.

One other thought I had, if i do the 24hr simmer again.. would there be a problem adding the veggies the last 4hrs. I cant image any more flavor would be added if its done longer. It would make the skimming much easier as well.

Good call. There's only so much flavour you can extract from vegetables, so the last 4 hours or so would do the trick.

I love the bowls used in this video, does anyone know what brand they are and where I could purchase them? Thanks!

You can actually buy them through the Rouxbe store. They are great bowls that are fairly inexpensive as well. Cheers!

Thanks Dawn!!!