How to Make Broth

Hello, I'm wondering if a Broth will have the same properties of a broth to solidify after it has cooled down?

What makes a stock solidify when cooled is the natural gelatin from the bones which is extracted over the long cooking period.

When making a broth, you are cooking the whole meat (not just bones). Therefore, it is much harder to extract gelatin unless you are cooking parts of the meat (e.g. chicken legs) where you might extract some gelatin but given the shorter cooking time, likely not as much.

Is browning of the meat and mirepoix ever done when making a broth? I really liked the improved flavor of the brown stock over the white stock and it seems like browning the meat and mirepoix would add great flavor to a broth as well. Might the browning in addition to the required simmer time might over cook the meat?

I made the chicken pot pies after making my broth today and it turned out great. I topped the pies with a beer bread batter rather than puff pastry and really liked the dumpling-like result. Puff pastry is to rich and buttery for my taste.

Good call Carol. Browning the meats, such as beef shanks, along with the mirepoix, especially the onions, will lend great colour and full flavour. That's how a beef BRODO is made. Don't worry about over-simmering the meat, but make sure you add only enough liquid to top the meats...any more will dilute both the broth and final flavour of the meat itself. Hope this helps.

Love the beer batter topping for your pot pie, by the way.

We have roast (small) chicken on Sundays, typically eating only the white breast meat. I then take the remainder including the leg meat and attempt a stock/broth. I remove the solids and strain the liquid and refrigerate to separate the fat. (It gelatinizes quite nicely, something I worried about till I did your lessons.) I then put all the solids (yes, including mushy carrots) together and have fine soup/stew lunches.

What do I have? A soup? a stew? The dark meat is especially good.

Keep up the good work.

Please I would like to know why no one would use hot water rather than cold water when you make a broth?

Thank you,

Cold water is purer than hot water, which comes from a hot water tank. Cold water also takes longer to come to a boil, which is a good thing when making stocks and broths as it gives the impurities more time to coagulate and rise to the surface.

For more information check out the lesson on
How to Make Stock

Hope this helps!

Yes your answer help a lot, because now I know the reason.
Thank you Dawn.

What type of meat should I use for beef broth? Also, I'm not quite sure when I'd use a beef broth over a beef stock. It seems to me that a stock would just have a lot more flavor...

Oxtail, beef short ribs...just like making stock really you want something has some gelantine and fat for added flavor.

As far as a stock being more flavorful than a broth, this is actually not the case. Broths are very flavorful, in fact there are some cultures that only use broths. For more information here is a very short lesson on How to Make Broth

Also this lesson on Broth Based Soups is full of helpful information about broths (dark or white broths).

Hope this helps!

I just watched the lessons on "How to Make Broth" and "Broth Based Soups", and I think I understand the difference between stocks and broths (cooking the bones vs. cooking the meat), I'm still not quite clear on why you'd use one over the other.

It seems that you use a broth more when it is closer to the final product, like serving a soup where the broth is the base. But why is the recipe for chicken pot pie a good one for broth rather than stock?

Why does the recipe for broth have salt but not stock?

What is the property of broth that makes it more appropriate for some things, and stock more appropriate for others?

Thanks!

You got it with regards to the difference between the two. Now why you would use one over the other...well you are on the right track here as well.

Broths are perfect for soups, especially those you are making from scratch (or when you don't have stock on hand). The reason it is great for chicken pot pie is because as you are making the broth, you are cooking the chicken for the pot pie...so basically you are killing two birds with one stone (sorry I couldn't resist).

That is not to say that if you had leftover chicken you couldn't make a great pot pie with stock, because you could.

Both stocks and broths are okay to have a bit of salt added to them...this will help to draw out some of the flavor from the ingredients. Many recipes call for no salt in stocks as they are used as the base for so many things. By not adding salt, you are able to better control the saltiness of dishes later. But like I said, a bit is okay, just don't over do it.

The property of a broth that makes it more appropriate, is that it is often more flavorful than a stock. In some countries, like in Italy they tend to only make broths. Some more often stocks, it depends more on the cook really. I mostly make stocks myself but there is nothing like a good chicken noodle soup made from a flavorful broth.

Hope this helps to clear things up for you. Cheers!

Thanks for the great reply!

What I'm hearing is that stocks and broths can be interchangeable. You really can use one or the other, depending on the style of the cook, what you have on hand, or if you need to cook the meat anyway for another purpose (like the pot pie example).

The big difference is that broths are more flavorful, so they are good for soups, where you might be eating them directly, without adding too much other stuff (other than garniture).

And so then the remaining question is, if broth is more flavorful, what is its advantage over stock? Why would some cooks choose to use stock more often over broth? Is it because if it's less flavorful, it can be used as the base for other dishes, and it won't overpower the final product with the taste of the stock itself and work better as a complement?

You are getting it Jon...nice work!

To answer your last question...stocks are most often made and used as they are the cheapest to make (but does take longer to make). And when I said, "broths are often more flavorful". I didn't mean to say that stocks are not also FULL of flavor.

I think you get it though, trust what you have learned, as you are definitely on the right track!

This Vietnamese Pho, is another great example of when broths are often used. But interestingly the meat is often not used in a Pho. All the bones and meat are added for flavor.

Assuming I do not want to make a dark broth, can I sear the chicken after making the broth with it?

I have never heard of this as the chicken is already cooked and searing it would only dry it out more...but to each their own. There are no rules saying you can't always give it a try. Cheers!

Considering that stock gets all the gelatin from the long cooking of the bones, can we say that stock is better for sauces, contributing to their texture? Does this then mean that maybe stocks are too thick/rich to be used in a clear soup like chicken noodle or Pho?
I'd also love to know what makes broths more flavorful than stocks, considering that it is cooked a short time and that I can't stand boiled breast meat which is often dry, flavorless and tough. Does all the flavor leach out quicker into the soup because there's more meat? Then, I have to ask, is there any merit to what I've heard: that all the flavor is in the meat and skin?
Wow, that's a lot of questions..In all these years, I've never really successfully resolved in my head the difference between stock and broth.

Here is much more info on this subject in this thread here. It seems that this is a popular question Manille and you are not alone. Have a read through that other forum thread and see if that helps to explain things a bit better for you. Cheers!

Hi Dawn,
I actually had read the entire thread before posting the question and these were still the questions that remained after...perhaps I'm just not connecting the proper synapses in my brain? :)

I had a pretty confident idea about all of this, but now, I am wondering if I am missing something. Isn't it ~mainly~ just this:

Broths -- in the case of chicken, e.g. -- are generally just a very useful by-product that we eagerly save when we happen to be stewing a chicken. Ordinarily, one would not stew a chicken just to get the broth as this would be very uneconomical when we can make stock from scraps.

OTOH, "intentionality" is a slippery concept. Needing a chickeny, flavoring liquid in a hurry, we might elect to stew a chicken "for the broth" but only with a good plan to make full use of the meat. To do otherwise would be like needing a quarter for a vending machine, getting someone to change a dollar bill and being indifferent to the other seventy-five cents. It might be true that our immediate motivation was to get the quarter, but it is something that we would never consider if we didn't know that we could also make good use of the other seventy-five cents.

Am I missing something? Isn't it really just Home Economics 101 and not at all about any subtle differences in stock v. broth.

Basically, both are flavorful liquids.

Broths are not necessarily just a by-product of another dish though. Both stocks and broths can be made intentionally for specific purposes. (i.e. chicken broth for homemade chicken soup / veal stock for demi-glace based sauces).

Both stocks and broths essentially follow the same steps; however, bones are generally used for making stock, whereas bones with the meat still attached are used to make broths (the cooked meat can be used for other purposes).

Broths tend to be highly flavoful and can be good enough to eat on their own (in the case of a soup broth - refer to the lesson on Broth-Based Clear Soups).

Stocks are usually added to a dish to support / enhance the flavors. Stocks are usually more gelatinous than broths because a higher ratio of bones are used. Stocks can also be reduced to intensify their flavor and create a sauce with plenty of body.

Marketing doesn't help. The terms are used interchangably and do make things confusing. Hope this explanation helps.

Thanks for that summing up...I think you've straightened me around a little bit. You all have tremendous patience, and I am sure you reach a point sometimes where you feel that a topic has already been more than adequately covered. Thanks for your patience.

No worries. Happy flavorful-liquid making! :)

Hi everyone, Just finished making this and it is AWESOME. You guys and girls are the absolute best. Love this website. JoAnn

I hate to ask this, but I have to know: How does consomme fit in all this. Is that just another fancy french name for broth, or is there a difference?

Good question and this is something that we will cover in the future. In the meantime, type in "consomme" in the search field (top right of every page) and you will find a few other threads that talk/ask about the same thing. Cheers!

I've made broth quite successfully a couple of times now, but I do have two problems.

1. After only 45 minutes, my broth doesn't seem as flavourful as it should be. I find I have to cook the chicken to the meat falls off the bone stage. The meat is then no good for soups etc. but it sure makes more flavourful broth. I wonder why my broth is so flavourless after 45 minutes? I am using a stewing hen. (which in Micronesia are tough and gross to eat anyway, so I'd just as soon use them solely for the broth.)

2. How do I keep the chicken from floating to the top and parts of it sticking out of the water? Stuff it with rocks?

Thanks for a great site.

If your broth is flavorless after 45 minutes you might just be using too much water. Once the meat has cooked try taking it off of the bones and then add those bones back to the broth and continue to cook it (as shown in the Broth Soup Lesson).

As for the chicken floating, this could also be from using too much water. You need just enough to cover the bird. Cheers!

Heston Blumenthal's book, The Big Fat Duck Cook Book, discusses preparation of consommes and the unique "ice filtration" method of making a consomme. Although it is time consuming, it requires very little effort and produces exceptional results.

Ice filtration is a little unconventional since Consommes are traditionally prepared via low heat utilising a protein raft, usually some sort of meat blended with a egg whites.

With ice filtration, all you do is freeze your stock and once frozen, place it in a muslin (cloth) lined sieve suspended over a bowl/saucepan in the fridge to defrost over the next two days or so. Since fat and gelatine remain solid at low temperatures in the fridge, only the pure stock will melt and drain through the muslin, leaving all the impurities behind. The result is a crystal clear consomme which can be gently reheated and served. Of course this only applies to meat based stocks and so for a non meat based stock, you would have to add gelatine to allow ice filtration to occur.

In Heston's case, he adds a small quantity of pure gelatine back to the Consomme in order to make a jelly which he then uses in one of his signature dishes.

Although I have never tried the protein raft method of making a Consomme, I have tried several times the Ice filtration method and it is dead simple and amazing to see the results - I encourage you to give it a try at least once.

Check out this link in the New York Times for more info and inspiration.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/05/dining/05curi.html

Happy cooking!

Cheers Tim

Until I did the lesson on broth I can't say that I ever really thought about there being a difference between stock and broth. I've always been more of a broth kind of gal since I was making a soup or stew, but now I see how they are different. I haven't made my own stock yet as I'm not in the habit of buying bones without meat unless they're for the dogs. It was interesting learning about collagen (oh that's what that gelatinous stuff is) but so far I can't see much point to stock vs. broth. I will try to keep an open mind though and try utilizing both. This definitely deserves more attention.

I'm wondering if after making a broth you can use the carcass for making stock? I ask because, where I live, there is no possibility of buying the bones by themselves.

Another question: In making a stew, if you cannot use wine & beer (my friends only eat Halal) then can I use chicken broth as my liquid?

If the broth was not cooked for a super long time then there is no harm in adding it to a stock. Just know that it might not provide a ton of flavor as most of it will have been released into the broth.

As for the stew question, indeed you can use broth or stock as the liquid. You may want to check out the lesson on Moist Heat Cooking for more on this (if you haven't already that is). Cheers!

Hi, Yesterday I made some homemade chichen broth like in the video. However, today after the chicken broth was in the fidge overnight, it didn't have the fat on the top. The entire chicken broth had the same consistency as jello. I wanted to know if this is normal or I did something wrong during the cooking period. Thanks

The fact that your stock was jello-like means it has a good amount of gelatine, which is a good thing. If you read the discussions on the "How to Make Stock Fundamentals" you wil see that many others have had this same concern. Cheers!

Sorry if this has been answered in this thread or another one, but it's pretty long :).

I'm making a chicken broth and have two questions:
1) How do I stop the chicken from bobbing up above the surface of the water? There is plenty of water in there, and if I held the chicken underneath, there would be plenty of room, but it keeps floating up so a bunch of it is uncovered. Is there a good way to keep it underwater?
2) If I keep adding cold water if the chicken is uncovered, won't that water down the soup?

Thanks!
Jon

Note sure exactly why your chicken is floating that far out of the water but I would say don't worry about it too much. It will likely sink a bit after it has cooked a bit. Also, the mirepoix that is added should help to keep the chicken underneath the surface of the water.

As for adding more water, yes indeed, this will only water down the broth so I would stop adding any more water. Don't get discouraged, remember that cooking takes practice and each time we do something, even if it doesn't go exactly as planned, we learn something. Keep up the good work. Hope this helps. Cheers!

Hi, I made my first chicken broth today. It came out good but it seemed overly greasy. I skimmed quite a bit off of the top. Is it because of the skin on the chicken? Any way to combat it?

Did you cool it and then refrigerate it afterwards? If you followed the steps in the Stock Making Fundamentals then you should have been able to remove the excess fat once it had solidified. Cheers!

yep thats where it is now. and s still looking vey good

Once it has chilled you should be able to remove the excess fat/grease. Cheers!

I love that I now know how to make both stock and broth and am excited to incorporate them into recipes. When a recipe calls for boullion cubes, can I replace it with stock or broth? I never really knew what a boullion cube does for a dish, but I've used it because it was listed as an ingredient. Can you please tell me the purpose of boullion?

Yes. Bouillon cubes are simply dried concentrate stock substitutes (some okay, many not so good for you as they contain a lot chemicals, additives, and a whole lot of salt). Have a look at the ingredients next time you are in the store. There are some decent liquid stock alternatives out there for sure, but it's just plain better and cheaper to make your own.

So if the recipe call for 1 cup of bouillon, just replace it cup for cup. And remember, stock and broth is just flavored water. So you might need to reduce your homemade stock a bit until you get a great flavor.

One more twist in this discussion.
Is fish stock made in a similar fashion and used for seafood dishes?

Yes, you can use fish stock in seafood dishes. Here is another thread on this discussion. Cheers!

When reducing the broth/stock and then cooling it, the fat came to the surface nicely but as I was placing the gelatin in freezer containers there was also a layer of solids (?) at the bottom of the pot which I had never seen before. I used bottled water and skimmed the surface many times during cooking and used a cheesecloth to strain before cooling. I also simmered the chicken quarters (meat and all) for about 4 hours before straining and then reducing so that may have contributed. However, the gelatin is very flavorful and looks great! Just wanting to know what I did wrong. Thank you.

As long as you didn't boil the stock/broth and you skimmed periodically to remove the impurities that float to the surface, you likely didn't do anything wrong. Some minute particles just tend to settle on the bottom of the pot. You can strain the stock again through cheesecloth to remove as much of these bits as possible. I wouldn't worry about it though. The main thing is that it tastes delicious. Great job! Cheers!

What would be the basics and parts to use, possibly the herbs etc to make a seafood based stock/broth.

There are many similarities when making fish stock. Usually the bones from white-fleshed, non-oily and mild fish (such as sole or flounder) are used. After rinsing the bones, they are usually sweat with the mirepoix (without browning) so the vegetables can soften and release their flavor during the short cooking time. Add the cold water and once it has been brought to a simmer and skimmed, it can even be turned down to a poaching temperature to gently extract the flavors. The cooking time is much less (about 30 mins to an hour). To start, the ratio of bones:mirepoix is about 3:1 but you can tweak this based on your preferences. Cheers!

Hello! I've learned that blanching will make the broth clearer but do you lose some flavor from the meat or chicken?

I made the base chicken stock the other day it turned out great. I am makeing sure to always to save bones for future stock.

I sometimes smoke chicken and other poltry, I was wondering have you ever tried to make a stock out of smoked chicken bones? If so what might I use a smoke stock for?

Jim

You could use your leftover smoked bones for making a stock a broth. You could use the stock in many dishes - from stews, braises to soups (split pea and ham for example). Even clear broth soups or any soup that uses a stock or broth. Really, when it comes to using the stock, it just comes down to thinking about what dishes you want to impart a slight (that's assuming the stock is not too strong) smokey flavor to. Hope this helps. Cheers!

What a coincidence that this topic shows up today. Just this morning I re-discovered a youtube channel by Michael Pardus, who is a teacher at the CIA. He has a couple of videos that cover consomme: http://youtu.be/1kCt5XHKDCk