How to Brine

I had my first experience with brining last week when I decided to brine a 22# turkey. The brine consisted of 1 cup kosher salt, 1 cup brown sugar, 5# ice, the juice and remains of about four oranges, rosemary, and garlic.
The cooled brine was placed in a 6 gallon insulated water jug, the bird placed in the container breast down, the ice dumped over the bird, and water added until the bird was submerged. Obviously, this wasn't going to fit in the refrigerator, but with the ice and insulated container I was able to leave it out to brine for about 16 hrs. There was some ice left when the bird was removed from the brine.
I was the best turkey I have ever cooked. Normally I don't like the white meat because of dryness, but that wasn't the case here.

Table salt weighs about 10 oz per cup, Morton Kosher salt weighs about 7.7 oz per cup, and Diamond Crystal Kosher salt weighs about 5 oz per cup. Therefore you need to adjust the volume of salt thusly:
Table Salt 1 cup
Morton Kosher Salt 1-1/2 cup
Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt 2 cups

Hi J Robert. While you are correct in quoting the ratios of those brands, we have tried to simplify the calculation process in this lesson by eliminating the need to do complicated calculations at the time of preparing the brine. One doesn’t always need a cup of salt to brine, so we tried to make the calculation simpler, so one can easily know how much salt to use, even if only brining a single chicken breast.

Also, rather than having to find a particular salt or brand and figure out their corresponding volumes, we are simply saying that you need 30 grams of any salt per liter or quart of liquid (for a low concentrate brine). By weighing it, you will end up with about the same concentration every time no matter what salt you use. You won’t have to depend on certain brands that may not be available in your country.

Thanks for your feedback. Hope this helps.

I brined a turkey for Thanksgiving following your instructions. It turned out really great. Now I'm thinking pork roast since its rather lean meat and I find it difficult to get the cooking time just right (even using a thermometer).

What do you think?

Pork roast is perfect for brining. Here's one we did a couple of weeks ago. It's a text recipe but it will walk you through the whole recipe.

http://rouxbe.com/recipes/1841

Good luck. Let us know if you need any help.

I've been looking for an excuse to use Calvados so this is perfect.

Of course we'll have to enjoy a little bit of "trou normand" as a before dinner drink as well.

Thanks

Wow! I'd heard of brining, but I had no idea it made THAT big a difference until just now, trying it on chicken. It made it much more moist and the flavor went the whole way through. That was one of the things I always disliked about white meat poultry...so dry and flavorless on the inside. It helped even the dark meat, but the white meat was especially impressive. I may never eat unbrined chicken again!

Dawn, sounds lovely your "Pork Roast" - can I brine a piece of pork called "solomillo" in spanish and which I 'm thinking of frying lightly and serving with a sauce?

I am a barbecue judge and like to smoke my turkey. I use the same solution to inject the breast & thighs the day before and leave in the same solution for 24 hours, acting as a brine. I use:
1-1/2 cup apple juice
1 cup water
1 cup light brown sugar
1/2 cup table salt
1/4 cup Worcestershire
1/4 cup maple syrup (double if you like it sweeter)

Modify the amount to cover the turkey. This is a good recipe and does not overpower the meat.

Yes, if solomillo is what I think it is, you can brine it. Just brine it according to it's size. Meaning that if you only have a small piece then don't brine for very long. And don't forget to pat the meat dry before you pan fry it.

Good Luck - Let me know how it turns out!

I tried out the recipe you suggested: rouxbe.com/recipes/1841 and it worked perfectly. I actually brined pork loin and it came out a lot more juicy and tender than any other time I'd done it. Thanks for the suggestion.

On the other hand, your recipe doesn't specify if the roast should be covered once in the oven or not. I took the safe route and put a lid on.

Isn't brining just great! As for the roast, I did not cover it, but if it worked out for you...then super! Thanks for the comment.

Will there be a lesson on Dry-Brining? If not, what's the difference in result between dry-brining and wet-brining?

The main difference with dry brining (which is really just a dry salt rub) is that there is no water used. The salt is simply rubbed over the meat and left to penetrate. The salt draws out some of the moisture and opens the pores. Over time the moisture and the salt are then reabsorbed back into the fibers of the meat (basically brining the bird with its own juices).

Dry brining usually takes a bit longer; it also can’t be sped up or rushed, because if you were to roast the meat, say a chicken or turkey, after the salt had just started to draw out moisture and it didn’t have the time to reabsorb that moisture, it would make for dry meat.

There are those that say that “dry brining is superior…and there are those that say the opposite. Basically it comes down to personal preference.

As for whether or not we will be doing a lesson on this…the answer is quite possibly….Hope this helps!

Hello. Just curious, but what is the difference between marinating and brining? I've heard of people saying they marinated in salt water. Were they simply incorrect on their lingo or are the terms interchangeable?

The difference between marinating and brining is that in a brine salt is one of the main components. Marinating on the other hand doesn't have to contain any salt...in fact marinades usually contain either an acid or an oil or both...whereas a brine can simply be salt and water.

So to answer your question...I believe that the "incorrect lingo" was used if someone referring to "marinated in salt water". But then again I do not know the context of what they were referring to...so I don't want to judge :-)

Hope this helps!

We tried brining for the first time today. Nothing too big, just three large chicken breasts. We went with the brining flavoring suggestions in the video but also added orange, just for fun. I can't believe we went our whole lives cooking chicken without brining it first. We're never going back. Once you've tasted juicy, brined chicken you are spoiled for life!

I have a question about using orange in a brine. Is orange something that you have to use a LOT of in order to detect it in the flavor of the chicken? We were unable to really taste any of the orange we put in the brine. Any suggestions about how to incorporate orange into a brine so that it is detectable?

We love this site. We never knew how much fun cooking together in the kitchen could be! We haven't gone this long without eating out since I don't know when!

I too have always wondered why people don't take the extra time to do this step. Glad you've had the breakthrough. Great with Pork too. We are doing a rack of pork today in fact.

As for flavoring, depending on the flavoring, it might take more than you think. For example, our apple cider brine takes quite a bit of apple cider:

http://rouxbe.com/recipes/121;text

You could also try using the zest from a few oranges as the zest typically has more flavor.

So in short, don't hesitate to experiment with your flavorings. The salt to liquid ratio remains important for the brining to work but the rest is up to you. Just add more if you want more. Cheers,

If you er to tenderize the meat, say pork, with a tenderizing hammer, should you brine first then tenderize or vice versa

Super Question. Brining is used to infuse flavor and moisten as you know. Tenderizing is a different process. If you cut and then pound first, your pieces will be very small (thin) so they will become very salty if brined in for a long time.

However, if you only had a very short amount of time, I don't see why you couldn't cut, tenderize then do a REALLY quick brine, say under 5 or 10 minutes. Would be a great experiment.

But generally, brining is for larger pieces of meat where you want to season internally. A pork tenderloin cut and tenderized would be just as good with topical seasonings sprinkled on top of the meat before cooking.

Thank you. Also, we love to smoke meat here in Texas and feel I'm pretty good at it and I always use a good dry rub that has very little if any salt on my meats, particularly brisket. I have always been afraid to try a wet brine for fear that too much salt would actually dry the meat out as it is cooked low and slow. Am I paranoid or should I experiment with a certain type of meat?

I would suggest trying a nice pork butt/shoulder. The shoulder has a good amount of connective tissue and fat for added flavor and moisture.

Here is a link to the lesson on "Combination Cooking Lesson" from the Rouxbe Cooking School
http://rouxbe.com/school/sections/210

Hope this helps. Good Luck!

Is it all right to use stainless steel to brine with, or should you just use glass? What are the safe vessels one could use? I don't want the brine to ruin my stock pot.
Dennis K

I use a big stainless steel pan all of the time to brine. Your stock pot will also work.

Here is a Drill-down on "Food Safe Containers for Brining" from the lesson on Brining:
http://rouxbe.com/drilldowns/366

For more info you can check out the full lesson on Brining.

Hope that helps!

Thanks for getting back to me. I was a little worried the salty brine might have a chemical reaction with the stainless steel and do something to it. Guess I was concerned for nothing. Thanks again, Dennis

I'm trying to brine a brisket this weekend based on this Ruhlman guideline: http://www.leitesculinaria.com/recipes/cookbook/homemade_corned_beef.html

The amount of brisket I have only needs 3L of water (and by this topic, 2 x 3 = 6 T of table salt). I know how to adjust my salt levels...but how would one adjust the quantities of aromatics when you're going by someone else's recipe?

In this case it would then come down to personal taste. I see that the recipe you are referring to is for Homemade Corned Beef, so I am not sure that you want to or need to use the exact spices. Unless you are also trying to make corned beef?

If you are making 3 lts and their recipe is for 1 gallon (4 lts) you will just need a bit less. I also noticed that there is a convert button on that recipe, so you also use that to help you out.

Hope this helps...basically there are no strict rules when it comes to adding spices etc. this is the fun part of brining. I guess it also comes down to what end result you are looking for...ie. corned beef.

Hope this helps! Good luck.

Thanks for pointing out the conversion tool, Dawn; didn't see it at first. I am indeed trying to make corned beef so the exact spices for the brine are important in this case.

Hopefully I can report back in 5 days to say it was a success...will try a less ambitious chicken brine while we wait!

Good luck and yes please let me know how it turns out, very curious. Myself I have not made corned beef, but I am sure it would be fun.

Enjoy the chicken...my fave!

Can i use brines again?

No is the answer to this one...as brine is contaminated and also a lot of the salt has been absorbed by the previous product, so the ratios would be off.

I'm an old hand at brining: no turkey cooked in my house for the last couple of decades has escaped brining prior to cooking, for instance.

Brining does indeed yield more juicy results. However, if you are used to dry and stringy white meat on poultry, or dry pork, you are overcooking. Brining will help, but it will not cure this problem. If, for instance, you brine a turkey, then cook it until the temperature thingie pops up, it will be a bit juicier than it would be if you hadn't brined. The problem is that the thingie pops up about twenty degrees too late. Cook your bird to 165 degrees, instead of 185 degrees, and the difference will astonish you, brined or not.

If you brine, then cook to temperature, as opposed to time, you will be amazed at the results you will achieve.

The same goes for pork. Pork only needs to be cooked to 150 degrees, but most people cook it WAY over that, and then wonder why it is dry. Sure, a pork roast that is brined and then cooked to 190 will be juicier than one that is not brined and cooked to the same temperature, but one that is brined, cooked to 150, then allowed to rest will be heavenly.

And that is another problem a lot of people have. They cook a turkey, or a pork roast, scramble to make sure everything else is done when the main meat comes out of the oven, and then immediately plunk it down on the table and begin carving. And everyone exclaims "Look how juicy it is!" as they watch the juice that should stay in the meat run onto the carving board, or plate, or whatever.

But, I don't wish to belittle the effects of brining. By all means, brine your turkey, your pork, your chicken. It is very easy to do, and has amazing benefits. Shellfish, shrimp especially, also benefit from brining. If you wish to turn out plump, juicy, and tender shrimp, brine it for a half-hour or so before you cook it.

But if brining has suddenly rescued you from dry, chewy and stringy white meat, you should try brining and then cooking to temperature. As I said, you'll be amazed at the results.

The cooking degrees you mention for pork for example (150 degrees) - can we use it in Spain? or we have to look for the equivalent. Thks a lot for your help.

Hi Montse,

Well, if I am not mistaken, you use Celsius there, I was using Fahrenheit. On the Celsius scale, pork would need to be cooked to about 66 degrees, and poultry to about 74.

A roast is by definition not covered when it goes in the oven. Covering it turns the dry heat method of roasting into the wet heat method of braising. The item basically steams in its own moisture, and this yields completely different results.

Is that safe? How much longer do I have to brine? Could save a lot of time.

The method of brining opens up the pores of meat to allow seasoning and moisture to penetrate into it. This will not work as well (or at all) with frozen meat. Placing frozen meat in a brining solution will help the meat thaw quicker; however as it thaws, some brining will occur on the outer parts of the meat and then eventually through to the center as the meat fully thaws, but the brining will not be very even. Meaning that the outside of the meat can over-brine by the time the inside is properly brined.

I suggest thawing the chicken first and then brining for the best results.

Looking forward ("Charcuterie" isn't up yet... :) ), I've been wondering about brining vs. wet curing. I've happily brined chickens (10:1 salt to water, by weight) with great success. I've also just finished curing my first pork belly in a mix of salt, sugar, and pink curing salt (sodium nitrite).

What I'm considering now is a wet cure, sometimes called a "wiltshire cure", on pork loin. The result should be something like English back bacon, not far from your Canadian bacon and different from our regular (streaky) bacon.

So, aside from adding a cure like pink salt to the mix, is there a fundamental difference between brining and curing?

A Wiltshire cure is basically a long brine. Wet curing and brining are term that can be used interchangeably, meaning their salt solutions can be identical, but curing entails the protein will undergo some form of charcuterie rather than a simple cooking process (something that can be stored and aged vs. something cooked and eaten immediately).

Let's be patient and wait till the fundamentals of the lesson come out. By the way, pink salt or nitrites are optional in cures, and again, this will eventually be covered.

Does it make sense to brine duck breast?

Absolutely. I usually brine with some red wine,orange juice, herbs and spices (especially pepper and coriander) added to the mix. I use a moderate brine (3T salt for every liter/quart of combined liquid). For the rest, follow the instructions in the lesson on brining times. You can also air dry the meat for a few hours in the refrigerator before cooking.

I was wondering if it is ok to use the brining solution next day? Let's say I make the brining liquid in the evening let it cool down and then store it in the refrigerator. Next day before cooking using it with the meat e.g. chicken breasts.

So basically, do I have to use the brining liquid right after when it is made (of course properly cooling it down) or later usage will be just as fine?

Good thinking. You sure can make a brine beforehand and store it in the refrigerator. This will give any aromatics or spices even more time to infuse into the liquid.

Once the meat has been added and brined, make sure to discard the brine - never reuse brine as the liquid will be contaminated from the raw meat.

Can you recommend brine solution for a veal tenderloin and how long to brine?

I would go for a simple brine with a veal tenderloin, maybe just some thyme, garlic and onion. But you can play around with this to suit your taste. For more information watch "How to Brine" lesson, in particular Topic 6 which is called How to Flavor Brines.

As for brining times, as a general rule, it is 1 hour for every pound of meat. I suggest starting with a low-salt solution, brine, cook the meat (with a bit of topical seasoning as well) and then see if that is salty enough for you. If not, you can leave it a bit longer next time or use a medium or high-salt solution brine the next time. Just be careful when using a higher salt solution, as this is often used when you are trying to cut down on the brining time.

Brining does take some practice and adjusting to find the salt solution that you prefer. Again for more information check out the lesson (same link as above), for brining times be sure to watch Topic 7.

Hope this helps!

Thanks for the brining lesson.Brining is very simple, and gives excellent results. 40grs. per liter appears the best solution for me.
Regards,
Gaby

It seems that two camps are setting up when it comes to dry brining. Cooks Illustrated (CI) is pre-salting “under the skin” while Russ Parsons of the LA Times has found this completely unnecessary. CI is “brining” for 24 to 48 hours. Meanwhile, Parsons states it will take 3 days for the turkey to reabsorb the moisture pulled by the salt. Would you please provide your insights on this debate: over the skin vs. under the skin and for how long?

Round 2: Judy Rogers, in her Zuni Café Cookbook, suggests a weak wet brine for 5 to 6 days with 1 additional day of refrigeration “so the brine can diffuse evenly.” But, both the US and Canadian Food Inspection Agencies indicate fresh or thawed poultry should be used within one to two days. I have called the USDA and they said restaurants operate under different rules.

I know that government suggestions can get carried to extremes in an attempt to protect even the most frail, but how do you recommend we balance the quest for excellence in food vs. the potential of poisoning our dinner guests?

Thanks, Bob

I think this just comes down to "everyone has their own opinion". Your best bet is to test a few of these suggestions/options out and see which ones works for you.

We brine, we also sometimes season under the skin...it's really just depends on time and what we feel like at the time.

As for the wet brine over 5 or 6 days it seems long to me and personally I would not feel comfortable leaving my poultry uncooked for that long. It may be great though, I have just never tried it, nor am I likely to. Besides life is busy, I am not sure that I could remember to think 5 days in advance :-) when it comes to brining my chicken.

Cheers!

Can you brine two different kinds of meat (chicken and baby back ribs)at the same time in the same brine?

I suppose you could. Just be sure to brine them each for the appropriate amount of time. Cheers!

If I brine chicken tenderloins longer than needed will they become tougher? I didn't notice them being more salty. I wonder if cooking time might have caused them to become a little tougher..
joe

Longer brining should not cause the meat to be tougher. You are correct that it was likely the cooking that caused this.

As for the longer brining not being overly sality, this is likely due to strength of the brine. You likely had a lower salt solution. Just be careful with brining times if you do a strong brine solution as it can totally over-salt the meat. Cheers!

Much to my dismay, hubby bought a processed, pre-basted turkey breast. It has been injected with salt, sugar, broth and sodium phosphate. It would seem that any kind of bring, wet or dry is out of the question?

I am not a fan of industrial processed meats, and did comment to him that 15% of the breasts weight is injected fluids, but I can't just throw it away...any suggestions?

I would not recommend brining the breast if it has already been injected with salt and other ingredients. You're right, no sense in wasting food, so you might as well cook it and enjoy. Cheers!

I did poorly on that quiz . I might have to start taking these more seriously. Anyhow my questions are about the use of leftover brine. I understand that's a no no . But what if you planned to brine more than one piece of meat one after another or could you add several cuts to one large brine and remove as needed? What if you boiled the brine to kill the bacteria ? And as for more expensive marinades and such can I save them if I wanted to reuse them. And if so what's the best way to save them? For example could I heat it to kill bacteria and then cool it and freeze immediately after use then a week or two later thaw the marinade in the fridge and reuse? If I remember correctly when I cooked at the Canoe Club in Victoria B.C. the chef would marinade [or brine I can't remember] turkey breasts overnight before smoking them keeping the solution in the walkin for further use for I think it was 7 to 10 days. Do these questions make any sense? I'm new to Rouxbe but am quite excited about learning from the lessons and being able to ask questions but right now I feel like I'm asking to much. Anyhow any feedback would be more than welcome and thank you very much.

For food safety reasons, it is best to discard the brine as it will contain impurities/bacteria from the meat. Removing pieces "as needed" isn't advised because you'd likely be over-brining the pieces that stay in the brine longer.

Same goes for marinades, which we'll eventually have a lesson of so we can't cover everything in a forum here. Certain marinades can be used to finish a dish. These must be brought to the boil though and cooked for about 5 minutes to kill any bacteria. Unless you make very large amounts, there's no need to keep them for long periods of time. Plus, as you reheat, you'll likely reduce and concentrate the marinade too much - if there is salt it in, it'll be too salty.

The beauty about Rouxbe is you can review the lesson many times until you are comfortable with the concept. Putting together a brine takes no time at all, once you know what you are doing. Fresh is always best, so make the amount that you need for the cooking that you're about to do. Cheers!

Hi there,
I too tried brining for the first time, and I was pretty surprised with the succulent results. :)
My question is about the ratio of brine to water when covering the meat. For example, when I was doing the practice assignment, I cooled the basic brine in the fridge, and I cooled the flavored brine with ice. While I realize that I only need to cover the meat (chicken breast, in this case) by a couple of inches, the flavored brine ended up being more diluted than the basic brine. So, is there a preferred ratio of brine to the water added to cover the meat?

This is my first post in any of the discussions! *grin*

The problem is that you diluted the flavored brine by adding the ice cubes (which is essentially adding extra water). In this case, you should have cooled the flavored brine over an ice bath before using it.

If adding ice cubes to a brine you have to adjust the amount of water that is used (as shown in the lesson).

Hope this clarifies things for you. Good luck with your next practice. Cheers!

My grandma taught me to brine the chicken (simple salt and water mix) and afterwards to hang it for 12-24 hours before cooking. This is apparently what is done in Chinese restaurants for a whole steamed chicken (literally white-steam checking). It was the best chicken I've ever had, moist and tender.

I now understand the brining, but what does the hanging actually do?

Thank you for your response! Maybe I'm being thick-headed, but the video shows pouring the flavored brine into a food-safe container and then adding iced water to the brine to cool it and to cover the chicken. I totally get that diluting isn't going to render consistent results (and I will use an ice bath in future), but the video does dilute the brine doesn't it? Anyway, when I did the practice assignment based on the video this was a hmmmm moment for me. :)

When we do this in the video (during topic 7 at around 00:20) we do say to add the hot brine to the container and then add ice but we do say to add the ice to your measuring cup first and then top up with cold water so you have the right measurement. By measuring the ice (and any additional water) you would not be diluting the brine with extra ice as it would be calculated in the process.

I hope this helps to clear things up. Sorry for any confusion. Cheers!

Hanging the chicken after brining was likely done because the skin of brined chicken is quite wet and hanging it helps to dry out the skin. Dry skin means crispier skin.

We talk about air drying in Topic 8 (around 00:49) which is essentially the same thing. Hope this helps. Cheers!

Whoops! I just re-viewed the video, and realized I had missed the part that said to make the initial salt and water mixture from 1/4 of the total liquid needed to cover the meat. This is why I was concerned about diluting the heated mixture. I'm sorry about that. thanks for all your time!

Lee-Ann

The first thing I ever brined was a turkey. I will never roast a turkey again without brining it! The white meat was as tender as the dark, even in sandwiches.

I'm looking forward to that marinade lesson that's coming.

In your comments on August 12 2010 "we do say to add the ice to your measuring cup first and then top up with cold water so you have the right measurement" this implicitly relies on a scientific principle that people might understand better if said directly. If you put ice in a cup and fill it to the brim, with some ice floating over the top, when all the ice melts the cup will NOT overflow! Ice is less dense than water, that is why it floats. But the decreased density exactly matches the part floating out of the water. So once you've added enough water to float the ice, the liquid measure on the container is the total amount of liquid once the ice melts.

For cooks, this means that if you want to cool a brine and make a water/ice mixture in a measuring cup, you know how much total liquid that you are adding. So if you are making 3 liters total and have simmered the salt and aromats in 1 liter of water, put some ice into a 1L measuring cup and fill to the 1L line. When you pour the contents in you've added exactly 1L of liquid. Then add 1L more water and you've got 3L total.

what about if you simmer the 1L a bit too long and some of it evaporates...

Okay, just playing with you. You are right but remember, while the brining process is a bit 'sciency', don't get to overworked about it. At Rouxbe we are trying hard to explain things well, but also to make cooking easier.

Measurements (except in some instances, like baking) do NOT always have to be perfect. What needs to be perfect is your personal observations and adjustments after you tried this one. Master your basic skills and techniques and then trust yourself. Once you've brined, ask yourself (or your guests) about the flavor and moisture and adjust to your personal tastes the next time (if needed).

It might take a few times to get it perfect for you, but it's worth it.

Great point though Ken. Thanks for sharing.

I have been brining for many years, it is one of my key steps for thick grilled pork chops and smoked chicken & turkey. I have a specific brine for each one of them. (PS: maple syrup and bourbon are great in a turkey brine!)

But I still learned a lot in this lesson. Some of it reinforced things I had figured out, some of it tweaked my existing processes, and some of it introduced new ideas to me. You guys rock. Keep up the good work.

I am planning to brine two packages of whole chicken parts. Viewed the video on brining after having purchased the chicken. I am trying to figure out the best way to address the different pieces of meat -- all different sizes (breasts, drumsticks, thighs, etc.) Will I need to categorize the different types via size and create several brine solutions? It seems like smaller cuts, like the thighs and drumsticks will only require 30-60 minutes or so. Does this sound correct? What would you recommend? Thanks!

Good question. The easiest would be to brine everything in the same container. They are likely all the same size (or at least close enough to the same size), so I wouldn't worry about it too much. 30-60 mins of brining time should be sufficient. Cheers!

Thanks, Dawn! I was on a tight schedule and had to start before your answer. I did it in two brine batches -- and what a lot of work that was! The next time I will definitely take your advice and assume that they are fine being brined together. I brined the chicken breasts for 30 minutes and the smaller drumsticks, wings, etc., for about 20 minutes. Hope the brining time was long enough to make enough of a difference. A whole chicken is looking like the way to go!

Joanna I just wanted to say that knowing how long to brine ingredients does get easier to determine with practice.

I remember being somewhat paranoid of over brining when I first started brining. To get over it I did an experiment just to know for myself how long something could brine before it became over brined.

For the experiment, I made a mild brine and then put a pork chop in it. I left it to brine for several hours, just to see how salty it would become. After cooking it and tasting it I realized that it could brine for quite some time before it became overly salty.

I also did the same experiment with a strong brine. The end result in this case was an overly brined pork chop. But in the end I found what works for me. If I am sort on time, I do a stronger brine and if I have more time then I usually do a milder brine. Hope this helps. Cheers!

Just popped in my mind, does brining liver gives more/better taste to it?

Brining is typically used for adding moisture to lean meats. I guess it depends on the type of liver you are using, as some can be very fatty. Not sure if there is any real advantage to brining liver. I haven't seen it before but this doesn't mean it hasn't been done. I say, try it out for yourself and see if you can tell a difference. That is the best way to learn. Also, if the flavor of liver is something you are not fond of, brining isn't going to change it. I would cook something else ;) Cheers!

Our birds go in an Eskimo brand cooler with lots of ice and this lasts out of the refrigerator for up to 24 hours. If the ice thins out, I add more.

can I brine a lot at once, then dry and freeze the brined pieces?

We do not recommend brining meat and then freezing it as the texture of the meat will likely be compromised once it thaws. Here is another thread on the same topic. Cheers!

Can seasoned salt be added to the brine along with the other salt and would one have to do an changing on how much is used if it can be done?

You can use a seasoned salt in a brine along with some regular salt. I am not sure how much seasoning is in your salt but you are correct in thinking that you will need to adjust the amount salt you are using so that the sum of the two different salts does not exceed the desired amount that you want to use in the brine (ie low, medium or high salt solution). Hope this helps - cheers!

I first brined a turkey a few years ago from a receipe i found online. It was the best and i always brine turkey now. I'll have to try the different brine receipies and with other meats. As I better understand it now. Thanks

I was curious about brining a pork butt prior to smoking, and I see there was some discussion about this, but the link has been removed. Can someone tell me if this is worth the time? We smoke pork butt a lot, and sometimes it comes out nice and moist and sometimes it seems a bit dry. I have brined chicken and turkey but not pork. Any help or insight would be appreciated. Thank you, and I love this site!

When making the initial brine 'tea' is the salt:water ratio based on this initial 1/4 of the overall brining liquid, or on the total liquid required?

The salt that is added to the tea accounts for the entire amount of liquid, not just the initial tea part. Cheers!

You could definitely try brining the pork butt prior to smoking, but I bet the main reason why you sometimes find the pork butt a bit on the dry side is because of the quality. If you look for a good cut with lots of marbling and connective tissue, this should keep the meat moist. Pork butt usually isn't brined because of the fat and connective tissue within but it doesn't mean you can't give it a try. Hope this helps! Cheers!

Thanks Dawn. Of course, now that I've read the Slow Roasted Rack of Pork it's very clear!

Thanks Kimberley, I did know that this cut of meat is not one that is usually brined, but given I use the low and slow method of smoking that it might help a bit. I think I will give it a try and let you know how I make out.

Can I brine a 3# Chynk Roast, and if so how log should it be brined

Typically chuck roasts are not brined because a good chuck roast will have plenty of fat and connective tissue which is what keeps the meat moist. Depending on the salt:water ratio you choose to use, brining times could be 1 hour per pound or less. Please refer to Topics 5 and 7 from within this lesson for more information. Cheers!

The lesson discusses how to measure out the brine by placing the meat into the container and pouring the water over it, while taking note of how much water is used. Then, it indicates to discard the water. Is there any particular reason (food safety) that the water used to determine the amount of brine, cannot be used to make the brine?

You can use the water to make the brine, just make sure it stays cold. Also be sure to subtract the amount of water with the amount of ice you add to maintain the proper ratio. Cheers!

The juniper berries used, are these the same type of berries that would grow on my juniper bushes? If so, do you have any ideas on how to dry them for use?

I believe that juniper berries are the same type of berries that your juniper bushes produce. As for drying them, here is another blog that I found that has a bit of info on drying the berries. Hope this helps. Cheers!

I would like to ask Dawn what kind of Chickens you're using in the video. They are the plumpest looking birds I've seen in a long time. Are they capons, or just fat chickens?
Thanks
Dennis

To be honest Dennis, I can't remember where I bought the chickens, as we buy from many different sources. There are quite a few good sources out there these days and they don't always have to come from expensive or higher-end grocery stores.

When buying chickens, which is what I usually just buy as they are the most common, I just look for ones that are fresh. plump andI that have good coloring. Some of the better ones I have bought have come from Polderside Farms, another one I buy that has always tasted quite nice is from Maple Hills Farm. Hope this helps. Cheers!

Thanks for getting back to me so soon. I'm going to do a roast chicken today, and right now I'm brining the bird. Next I'll put compound butter under the skin and roast it. BTW, I love this site. You guys are great.
Dennis

I am really unsure if I want to add too many flavors to my chicken. If I really want just a pure chicken flavor, will I still get good results by simply using a salt and water brine? Will that enhance the chicken flavour noticeably?

If you are using quality poultry then absolutely a simple brine will still add flavor and moisture.

To really know for yourself what the difference is,, it is a good idea to test it. For example, one year I did two turkeys for Thanksgiving (I am not suggesting you have to do two turkeys), one I used a very simple brine and the other one I used an aromatic apple cider/thyme and the difference was totally noticeable. I have also done experiments where I brined one chicken and not the other. That way I know first hand what the difference is and how I personally feel about it. Hope this helps. Cheers!

Do you have a recommendation for brining shrimp and lobster?

Brining isn't necessary for shrimp and lobster. The meat is too delicate. You could marinate either for a short period of time (see Marinating lesson) but these ingredients are tender and succulent when they are "just" cooked. Cheers!

if steaming or poaching method is used to cook a brined chicken... Do you think the chicken will be more moist than an unbrined chicken?

Yes, brining will keep the meat moist and tender no matter what cooking method is used (providing the meat is not overcooked). It also adds flavor, depending on the type of brine you use. You should test it for yourself to see the difference. Steam a brined chicken breast and an un-brined chicken breast and compare the two. Cheers!

Thank you for the quick response Kimberley. yes you are right, key to fully understand a lesson is to do experiments. can't wait to try it. i've done n tried some of Rouxbe's lessons, and the result is... with my hand i can create more happiness and love in my family. Rouxbe is simply the best.....

Is bribing suitable for kosher chickens? I'm worried the end product would be way too salty given they have already been pre salted as part of the koshering process.

It could likely be too salty as part of the koshering process involves salt. Here is where you'll have to experiment to determine this for yourself. You could start off with a very low salt brine and see if that produces the results you like. Cheers!

the brining class is too hard for me to understand i can't seem to be able to follow everything that is said in the lesson just to hard can't understand it.

frank

Frank,

You haven't specified what part of the lesson you are having trouble with, but since I am smack dab in the middle of brining a chicken as I type this, I'll just tell you the procedure I used.. step by step. After following these steps once, I would suggest you go back and re-watch the video on brining to see if it makes more sense.

This is what I did for a whole chicken.. but the process is the same for other meats.
1. I thawed the roaster in the refrigerator (it took 4 days)
2. I decided to brine it in a small cooler with lots of ice to keep it COLD. I did not have room in my fridge for a large container.
3. I determined it would take 3 quarts (12 cups) of water to completely cover the bird and made a mark on the side of the cooler where I needed to refill to. I also determined that an 7.5lb chicken was going to require 8 hours to brine.
4. For 3 quarts of brine, I determined that I would need 6 Tbs of table salt, 3 tbsp sugar, 3 tsp peppercorns, 3 cloves of garlic, 3 bay leaves, a dozen sprigs of thyme.
5. I put 3 cups of water in a saucepan (1/4 of the required amount of water) and added the above ingredients. The measurements are not critical. Just be careful to determine the correct amount of salt. I brought it all to a simmer and made sure the salt and sugar were fully dissolved.
6. I turned off the heat, covered, and let the "salt tea" steep for about an hour. It smelled wonderful.
7. After steeping, and before adding to the chicken, I added lots of ice to the "salt tea" to make sure it was COLD.
8. I put the chicken in the container, poured the "salt tea", ice, and fresh cold water into the container until the bird was completely covered (I had already determined where I was filling the container up to in step 3, so I did not need to re-measure.)
9. I made sure the ice/water/brine mixture completely covered the bird, and had enough ice in it to keep it cold for the entire 8 hours. The fact that it melts and dilutes the brine was already calculated in. Three quarts of ice/water.. when it melts is still 3 quarts of water.
10. My bird has just come out of the oven! I gotta go eat! hmmmm!

I'm about to start an overnight brine of a whole chicken. It's the scrawniest (cheapest) one I could find for this experiment. The notion of potentially getting even more juices out of a rotisseried bird intrigues me. Thanks again for these wonderful lessons. My question concerns the leftover brine.

I understand you cannot reuse the brine because of food-safety reasons, but is there any problem with using some of the brine water to deglaze the roasting pan? Or perhaps use it for something else like boiling something such as potatoes, rice or the like. It seems a shame to waste that flavor.

Thanks in advance,
Jim

It is just so amazing how much I'm learning here on this site!

Leigh, I didn't read your post last night just because I was more concerned with the process already described in the lesson. What a great suggestion to use the ice cooler when refrigeration space is limited. Thanks for that tip.

Regarding the use of the brine to deglaze: using the moderate proportion of the three suggested in the lesson, the brine was more salty than I imagined it would be (I had added sugar too). I only used about one ladle-full to deglaze the pan and then added more water while gradually adding beurre manié. It's hard to tell of the flavor from the brine itself had any influence on the gravy. I would not call that a successful part of this process even though the gravy was delicious. I hadn't planned on boiling potatoes or rice with this meal, so I cannot say anything about using the brine for those purposes. Perhaps adding only some of the "brine tea" to a pot of water might add something, but for this time, it went down the drain.

Thanks again,
Jim

Thanks James, I can't take credit for the idea of using the cooler for brining as that came from several earlier posts in this thread... but you are right, it is a great idea! I use a round cooler meant for Kool-aid type drinks, that the chicken just barely fits. This minimizes the amount of water, salt and seasonings, and ice that I need for the brine. It also eliminates the problem of having the bird float.

My brined roasters have been amazing, with wonderful crispy skin, and lots of moist, tender, flavorful breast meat. The jury is still out on the dark meat. I find the resulting texture and taste of the dark meat just a little strange. However, I live in a part of the world where chicken is of questionable quality, so I blame the strange texture on the chicken, and not the brining process.

My biggest problem has been making gravy, as I find the drippings from my finished roaster much too salty for a decent gravy. The lesson warns of this, and advises using minimal salt to season the meat as you cook. I will be cooking my next roaster with no additional salt to see if I can end up with acceptable gravy. If not, I will be reducing either the amount of salt in the brine, or the amount of time that the chicken sits in the brine solution.

As you discovered, the idea of using brine for deglazing simply compounds the problem. Brine is simply too salty for use in cooking. It has served its purpose... and is full of potential sources of bacteria. Just toss it.

We cannot stress enough that any leftover brine should NOT be re-used or used for any other purpose. It should be discarded after the first use. It is not food safe and contains contaminants from raw meat and ingredients. Any other ingredients that are added to build the dish should be fresh. Cheers!

Thanks Kimberley,

I had interpreted 'not reusing leftover brine' as not reusing it for brining something else once again, not for reuse for any other purpose. The penny has dropped.

Yes Leigh, I now see it wasn't your original idea to use the cooler Thanks goes to Johnathan L. However, I can say that I do enjoy your detailed entries.

Now brining some very lean beef...

Cheers everyone,
Jim

I need to monitor my salt intake but am very interested in trying out brining. Is there any way to calculate or even estimate the end-point salt content of, say chicken, after brining? Assume that I stick with the 30g salt and recommended 1 hour per pound. Thanks!

Scientifically, I'm sure there is a way to do this, but personally, I don't know how. I'm sure a large amount of salt is left over in the brine. I would say use a low-salt solution to give brining a try. It seasons the food but doesn't overpower it. If you are on a very strict diet, then it is best to avoid the foods that you shouldn't have. My motto is "everything in moderation" though. If you try to cook most of the food you eat at home and if you try to maintain a balanced diet with lots of fruit, veggies and whole grains...and most importantly you exercise regularly, then almost anything and everything can be enjoyed in moderation. Cheers!

I brined (low salt) some wild rabbit for a braised rabbit with Béchamel sauce. The pieces I had fell into two weight categories: about an ounce or three ounces, plus or minus. As a result I took the smaller pieces out after about four minutes and the larger pieces out after about eleven minutes.

The larger pieces showed a little more water retention, but the smaller pieces did not really appear to be affected. I suspect that if I had kept them in the brine for about 25 minutes they would be about what I was hoping for even though, by weight, one would assume that would be too long.

Do you have any experience brining smaller portions that would refute or back up this theory?

Very good, yet scientific question. I've brined prawns, some for one hour, some overnight. One would think the overnight brine would be too long, but not the case. Much depends on salt concentrations, and perhaps even type of protein structure.

As a cook I'm always thinking flavour. When I brine I use low salt- high flavour brines (often made with wine or beer, especially for rabbit) and a long brine so the flavour, more than the salt, penetrates right to the bone.

When I start thinking too scientifically, or too artistically, or too philosophically about my cooking I feel I move away from my instincts. Your instincts were right. That extra 25 minutes or so would probably have given you what you were hoping for.

I love seeing in these forums that people are asking questions that go to the science of food. But science is most effective through many observations and trials and errors on your own - only then does science morph as logic, and eventually logic morph as instinct.

Alas, what they say about the process being the vital part of the learning process is true.

Good stuff, Michael. Make sure you have lots of onions and some cracked pepper in that bechamel. Research Soubise sauce, a derivative of bechamel.

Thanks, Tony. I'd agree about the onions and pepper. :)

I'll try brining with wine next time. I imagine I'll go with a white--probably chardonnay--as I think a red could easily overpower the subtle flavor of the rabbit rather than enhance it. However, I'd be interested in your take.

Thanks for the tip about Soubise sauce. I saw one version that enriched with crème fraîche. I can't say that sounds like a bad idea.

What is the importance of having the meat submerged in the brine?

For instance, if I can fit *almost* all of my turkey in the brine (minus some of the legs sticking out), is that OK?

Will this work? Should I rotate the turkey so that even the end of the legs get some brining time?

The meat is submerged so that it brines evenly. Ideally, you should make enough brine to cover the whole bird as shown in the lesson. It's okay if the tips of the legs are popping out a bit (or place something overtop to hold the bird underneath the water) but it is better if it is completely submerged. Cheers!

It's really more a matter of not having a large enough pot.... and the city where I live doesn't seem to have brining bags.

If u are making a brine and there is too much can u freeze what you don't need. I just mean the liquid - not the brined meat.

I don't see why you can't freeze any unused brine. Though really I would just make the appropriate amount the next time as it seems like wasted space in the freezer, at least in my freezer. Cheers!

I recently made a few Indian Chicken Curries, and while I've managed to create good flavor and consistency in the curry, the flavor of the meat and its texture (slightly tough) was underwhelming. Does brining have the same effect on meat when using a wet-cooking method (in this case, stewing/simmering would be the technique I suppose)? Do you think brining would help add flavor to the meat and make it juicier... and thus more tender?

Thanks for all the feedback and tips... adds great value to the rouxbe experience!

Yes!

Whether I am roasting, stir-frying, grilling, stewing or adding the meat to soup or sauces... brining makes a noticeable difference in the tenderness, texture, and flavour of the meat. Easy to test actually. Brine just 1/2 of the meat you are planning to use, and prepare a portion of your curried dish with brined meat, and half unbrined.

Yes, brining will provide flavor to the meat but regardless of the cooking method, make sure to not overcook the meat (i.e. adding chicken breast to a curry/stew). While brining helps to keep meat juicy, if the meat is overcooked, it won't matter much if it was brined or not. Cheers!