Knife Sharpening with a Whetstone

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to comment about something that is really important. If you've been using a dull knife for some time, or forever :-), you need to take extra care when first using your newly sharpened knife. The reason is that you have likely become very used to applying more downward pressure on your knife than is necessary, just to get through the food, without worrying too much about slipping (because you likely can't do much damage). But remember how that sharp knife in the video cut paper.

So please review your other knife skills lessons:
http://visa.rouxbe.com/school/sections/104 (slicing safely topic in particular)

Remember:
1. Stabilize your ingredient
2. Anchor your knife
3. Make sure your hands are safely positioned so that you can't nick yourself - ever.

If you sing this mantra each and every time, it will soon become second nature to you and you'll be cutting safely with your eyes closed (you know what I mean). Cheers.

I wrote something about this yesterday, but it seems to have disappeared. One of the questions asks if the knife should be cleaned when the black slurry forms on it during sharpening. I said no. That was marked wrong, but the explanation said that the slurry aided in sharpening the knife. If that is so, why should it be removed from the knife during the sharpening process?

Paul, I answered that question "False" as well and it was counted correct:

During knife sharpening, when a black, pasty slurry forms on the stone, make sure to wash it off and wipe the blade?
--> b) False
Explanation: During sharpening, a black pasty slurry will form. This actually helps to sharpen the knife. Moisten the metal slurry with a bit of water to help create a finer edge on the knife more quickly.

Apologies for any confusion. We had contacted Paul directly. There was an error for that question which was corrected yesterday. The quiz is now functioning properly. The answer is, in fact, b) False. During knife sharpening, you do not need to wipe or remove the black slurry from the stone or knife. Happy cooking!

http://www.amazon.com/W%C3%BCsthof-4473-10-Inch-Sharpening-Steel/dp/B00009WDT8/ref=pd_sbs_hg_1

Indeed it is, I have one of these myself!

I didn't have time to check in earlier this week. I did my first TV voice over and well that speaks for itself; I didn't have the opportunity to write on the site. Anyway, I found a kitchen supply store in downtown NYC which had whetstones and purchased a "rough" one and a "polishing" one. I went over the tutorial again before I tried sharpening my knives, first testing to see which ones were in need of sharpening even though I hone them regularly. After going through all the preliminary procedures, soaking, etc., I started sharpening. It did take quite a while, but the results were simply fantastic and unbelievable. I am so pleased with the results. And I got a workout for my arms doing it as well. Thank you so much. I just adore this site.

I was out shopping for my wife today (she'll never ask me to do that again) and found an 8" 800 grit diamond whetstone. It is nickel coated steel with diamond dust impregnated on the surface that is mounted on a plastic block. Water lubrication only.

It is a dream to use and takes very little pressure or time to reach a very fine edge. Also available is a 1200 grit polishing diamond whetstone. And . . . it's relatively inexpensive.

I saw those also; may add them to my collection, we shal see. I'll start as recommended and proceed from there.

I think anyone who is considering learning to sharpen knives should have a look at Murray Carter's videos. One in particular to watch is "Sharpening a knife on a concrete block" Just search the phrase on google advanced video search.

Not that I am suggesting that anyone should actually do this with their good kitchen knives. It just that kind of deemphasizes the whole tendency to think you have to spend a lot of money to get the job done.

Regarding technique, I was very impressed with this particular series. There are a lot of demonstration videos out there that show you the techniques that will cause you to ruin your whetstone. (eventually)

This series shows the proper way to do it. Bravo!

there is just taking them to a professional knife sharpnener and having it done beautifully and properly sharp and not injuring (or exposing to potential injury) to ones self or other damage. But it is lovely to know how to do it and have the tools to do it with when necessary.

Mmm... something that was said in this lesson, I heartily disagree with.

Sharpening knives and edges in general is an art form all to itself... I send my knives to Bob Kramer... or, at least I used to... I now send them to some friend of his in Oregon because Kramer is too busy forging perfect blades to be bothered with sharpening knives anymore.

They use a Tormek and have decades of experience... and will get you the PERFECT angle on your blade every time...

Here is Bob Kramer's website:
http://www.kramerknives.com/

And the site for Zen Blades, the people he steers me to to get my knives sharpened now:
http://www.zenblades.com/

Well, I have to heartily disagree with your disagreement. Why? Becasue quality knife sharpening craftsman are hard to come by - a lost art for some time. Maybe in your neck of the woods they exist...but not in mine. Here I have to take my edge in my own hands. And its great when you can do it yourself when you need it. I like people to know they have an option to do this. Just like a good stock, I can get it from others or do it myself.

Almost every master bladesmith takes in knives for sharpening via mail. I mail mine off and have them returned within 3 days. Yes, it's more expensive than doing it yourself ($5/ knife) but you get what you pay for.

I send my blades off once/year for sharpening in bunches, so I always have the tools I need at my disposal even when I have some off getting the razor's edge.

As long as the home cook are getting their knives sharpened and done well, and one would rather go that route, ít's great. However, as a cooking school, I have to teach people to be able to grab the horns with their own hands. My professional students cannot graduate from my school without knowing how to sharpen a knife themselves a la minute, and ever since I emphasized this skill and criteria the results speak for themselves. So much depends on what you are willing to do for yourself, or what is convenient for you. I sharpen my knives every 3 months at home, once a month at school, so it's convenient for me to do it myself. Thanks for the links, though. Info is always key here.

Matthew, this is a lesson on knife sharpening... so ok since you choose to have it done professionally, maybe that lesson is not for you, but... well it wouldn't make much sense for the lesson to say "you should go see a professional"!? I am in an area where there are professional knife sharpeners, but personally I don't want to have to pay $5 every time I want a knife sharpened - and I like to do it myself anyway.

Thanks a lot for that lesson, it's invaluable.

I don't know why there is such a phobia out there when it comes to learning to sharpen knives. Even Alton Brown has it, and tells people they won't be able to learn to sharpen their knives properly, and that they should go to professionals. I ordinarily agree with Alton, but not this time.

I get stubborn at times, especially when people tell me what I can't do. So I learned. It's actually pretty easy once you get the whole rhythm of the thing down.

Of course it takes practice, so start with an inexpensive blade like a pocketknife, if you are worried about ruining your good culinary knives. This will give you confidence in your abilities, and a sharp pocketknife as well. :)

Sure, it's easier to send your blades to someone else to have them sharpened, but it is also a good deal less convenient. Also, a "Tormek," eh? Sorry, but I would never even consider sending my blades off to someone who uses a grinding wheel, no matter how fancy and how many bells and whistles it has.

There are far too many ways to ruin a good blade using a grinding wheel. Real professional sharpeners use the method shown here; send your lawnmower blades off to people who use machines and charge five bucks a pop for "professional" sharpening.

Meanwhile, don't let people discourage you. You CAN learn to sharpen your own knives.

Amen, Kelly - sharpening by yourself is not that time consuming and is very satisfying

Well, I just took the test, and I got marked wrong, as I expected, on the question "Steels are used to sharpen knives."

Until very recently, I subscribed to the myth that honing and sharpening were different things, and, by the way, wondered why the major knife companies call their steels "sharpening" steels.

I wish the distinction were actually correct, as it makes things so easy and convenient. I used to say "I hone my knives using a honing steel, but when they need actual sharpening, I use..."

Then I had a conversation with a certified master bladesmith, and he politely pointed out that I was wrong to make this distinction. To back it up, he didn't quote a bunch of blade lore at me, he just invited me to look the terms up. So I did. And you know what I found? He's right. Honing, stropping, whatever, they are all defined as methods of sharpening.

So, while I suppose you can call the use of a steel honing, and the use of a whetstone sharpening, you can't, technically, say that using a steel is not a method of sharpening. Well, you can say it, but you won't be right. :P

Sure, in using a steel, you are mostly knocking an already sharp edge back into alignment, but there is also a reason that most good steels are magnetized, and this is because they actually do remove some material from the blade, as well. In any event, you are changing an effectively dull blade back into a sharp one, therefore, you are, by definition, sharpening it.

It is also somewhat of a relief to me to realize that my favorite knife manufacturer isn't merely calling their steels "sharpening steels" because they are too stupid to know the "difference" between sharpening and honing.

Yeah, I'd want to argue with me, too. :) However, I invite you to look these terms up before you do.

Having visited many blade forges in Japan while I lived there, and having met several Master Bladesmith's here in the US... and that ALL of them use a classic grinding wheel instead of a whetstone... I'm inclined to agree with the thousands of years of practice.

As for honing vs sharpening on a steel, a lot of that depends on the steel you're using. Yes, a rough steel, diamond steel, ceramic steel, etc will remove some of the metal... smooth steels will not at all. It all depends on the desired effect and the application of your steel. I use a rigid steel for honing beat up blades in the restaurant, but a smooth steel for my most prized sushi/sashimi knives.

At a blade forge, of course they will use a grinding wheel to initially shape the blade edge, but we are talking here about final sharpening, and re-sharpening.

As to the terms "honing" vs. "sharpening," you really should look them up.

I have not been as lucky as Matthew to have visited forges in Japan or have met several Master Bladesmith's in the US, but I have been fortunate enough to get to know Murray Carter. Murray is a 17th Generation Yoshimoto Bladesmith (after 18 years of bladesmithing in Japan) and a Certified Master Bladesmith. Murray would never use a belt grinder for sharpening. He might use a traditional Japanese Water Wheel Grinder to repair a blade that has been severely damaged, but to get a razor sharp edge, he uses whetstones. Murray said that some forges and Bladesmiths do not use whetstones, because it is one extra step in the knife making process that adds an additional cost to the knife. Murray always hand sharpens his knives with whetstones before sending them out to customers.

If you want to read what other knife enthusiasts think about whetstones and their advantages over grinding wheels, check out the discussions at http://www.knifeforums.com or talk to Dave Martell at http://www.japaneseknifesharpening.com/index.html. Dave has an excellent reputation around the country for his expertise in sharpening knives.

Personally, I prefer sharpening my own knives using whetstones. I have control over the end process, and I am always assured of getting a razor sharp edge without grinding away my blade.

This was a response from Dave Martel at http://www.japaneseknifesharpening.com/index.html about grinding wheels.

"Hi Ted,

The Japanese do not use wheels to sharpen on, this is a common misconception. The wheels seen in knifemaker's shops and knife stores are for rough grinding in the shape of a bevel or for doing repairs and in almost every case followed up with hand work on a stone.

On the Tormek specifically, this uses a very small (10" or smaller as it wears) wheel that produces a deep hollow ground edge bevel which many within the pro knife sharpening world view as weak. Also, this hollow ground edge can not easily be followed by the end user during sharpening/maintenance since the bevel is ground so differently than the flat bevel that a stone would provide. This is where the large (3'-5') diameter wheels used in Japan make a big difference since they grind near flat bevels which can be easily followed by the knife user as need be.

As for steels, it'd true that grooved steels remove metal and are to be avoided, however no steel should be used on a sushi/sashimi knife (aka - yanagiba) as these knives are very delicate single edge and may easily be damaged as a result. While on the subject of single bevel knives, these should also be kept away from the Tormek and machines like it as they can not do the work as needs to be done. I know this because I tried to use one for years before selling it off and turning the money over into bench stones.

As for ABS knifemakers (master bladesmiths) using grinding wheels for applying edges I would have to disagree here. I've never once met a single mastersmith that uses a grinding wheel to put an edge on a knife. I would venture to guess that 90% use a belt grinder/buffing wheel combo with the rest using a DMT bench stone. There might be a small fraction using waterstones but I wouldn't expect that to be more than one or two at the most.

I hope this information helps. Please feel free to reprint it and to post any links to my sites that you might want to.

Take care,
Dave

Yay, Ted! Very well said (and quoted). Thanks. And Murray is the man! I'll have to check Dave out now, as well.

As with the proper grip on a on a knife... so to are people's opinions on this subject. I'll stick to the people I know... I've not really gone through much of Murray's stuff, but I both know and respect Bob Kramer and Hattori.

On a different note.. back when I DID sharpen my own knives, I tried to steer away from stones.

I got a piece of granite from a local building company and used 3M microabrasive films to get my edges.

i think this lesson is worth the price of membership alone.

i don't need samurai sword sharpness; i just want a knife that won't bludgeon my tomatoes. having scoured for information elsewhere, this lesson concisely answers most of the questions that i've had. wish i had known some of this sooner before i bought the 1000/6000 grit stone (as was recommended to me from another forum) because it's taking a reeeeeallly long time to sharpen all these knives that have the cutting precision of a ripe banana. most likely will have to go out and buy a coarser grit.

nevertheless, there is a soothing rhythm with every swish of the blade gliding along the whetstone. and then you have a sharper knife at the end. what's not to love? and it's great to see a few women on this forum. and i hope i'm not insulting anybody here when i say this but i'm glad that there is less bloviating he-men behavior and more appreciation for the swishing rhythm of steel against stone.

thank you

There are things to remember when you start talking about stones...

In the words of the great Chad Ward:

Synthetic aluminum oxide stones are very, very hard and don’t wear like natural stones. They clean up easily with a scouring pad and are more consistent in their grading systems. Spyderco and Lansky both manufacture synthetic stones in a variety of grits (see discussion of grits below).

Japanese waterstones are considered by many to be the ultimate sharpening tools. Although natural waterstones are extremely expensive and hard to find, reconstituted stones are readily available. These reconstituted Japanese stones are held together by a resin bond, cut very quickly (and wear more quickly as well) and are available in extremely fine grits that will put a high polish on an edge.

Synthetic waterstones, as used by EdgePro systems, are formulated from aluminum oxide specifically for knife sharpening. Like Japanese waterstones, they need to be wet in order to cut effectively.

Diamond “stones” have man-made diamond particles imbedded in or coated on a base metal. They cut very aggressively and should be used with caution. They were formerly available only in very coarse grits, but that is changing rapidly. According to Leonard Lee, monocrystalline diamonds are preferable to polycrystalline diamonds in a diamond stone. They are nearly twice as expensive, but last much longer. EZE-Lap, Lansky and DMT make excellent diamond stones.

There are two other issues related to abrasives that must be considered: grits and lubrication.

You Want Grits with That?

All of these abrasives come in a variety of grits from very coarse to ultra-fine. Grit refers to the size of the individual particles of abrasive in the sharpening stone. A stone with a finer grit has smaller particles, and produces an more polished edge with less prominent micro-serrations. A stone with a coarser grit has larger particles, produces an edge with more prominent micro-serrations, and tends to abrade metal away more quickly. There are several different grit rating systems, and unfortunately it is very difficult to correlate these different systems. For example, Japanese waterstones are graded differently than diamond stones and both have different numbering systems than the codes found on powered grindstones. Steve Bottorff, author of “Sharpening Made Easy” has taken a stab at it here if you’re interested.

What we do know is that you’ll need a coarse to medium stone for shaping the edge and removing the shoulders of over-thick edges. You’ll also need a fine stone for sharpening the final edge. The combination stones found in most hardware stores just won’t do the trick. The coarse side isn’t coarse enough and the fine side isn’t fine enough. Any of the sharpening systems mentioned later will come with appropriate stones.

In very general and imprecise terms, stones rated lower than 300 grit are coarse, 300-400 are medium, 600+ are fine and 1200 and up are extra fine.

Japanese waterstones have their own grit rating system. They cut so quickly that anything below 800x can be considered coarse, although they’ll leave a much more polished edge than a corresponding Western stone. 1000x and 1200x can be considered medium and medium-fine and make an excellent general purpose stones. Waterstones can go up to 8000x, but that’s really overkill for kitchen purposes.

The stones that come with Spyderco’s Sharpmaker are listed as fine (the white stones) and medium (the grey stones). The grey has been compared to an approximately 800x waterstone, the white to a 1200x waterstone in effect.

The synthetic waterstones from EdgePro systems also have an idiosyncratic rating system. The coarse stone is listed as 100, the medium as 180, the fine 220, extra fine 320, ultra fine is 600. However a conversation with Ben Dale, owner of EdgePro, revealed that the extra fine stone is equivalent to a 1200x Japanese waterstone and the ultra fine equivalent to a 2000x Japanese stone. The basic system comes with a medium and fine stone, which should be sufficient for most needs, though the coarse stone comes in handy for quickly reshaping bevels.

Oil or Water?

Everyone knows you need to lubricate your sharpening stone with water or oil, right? So the question is which one is better. Neither. The purpose of a sharpening stone is to grind the edge and remove metal. Oil reduces friction and makes the process much slower.

Supposedly oil helps float away metal particles that would otherwise clog the pores of the stone. You can do the same thing by wiping the stone with a damp cloth when you’re done. Steve Bottorff reports that you can clean your Arkansas stones with paint thinner. Synthetic stones clean up with a scouring pad and abrasive cleanser.

According to Joe Talmadge, if you have already used oil on your Arkansas stone, you’ll probably need to keep using oil. But if you have a new Arkansas stone, a diamond stone or a synthetic stone, go ahead and use it without oil or water. It will work much better.

John Juranitch reports that in his company’s work with meat processing plants they discovered that the metal filings suspended in the oil on a stone actually chip and abrade the edge. Although these chips were only visible through a microscope, the meatpackers readily noticed the difference between the knives sharpened on a dry stone and those sharpened on oiled stones.

Waterstones are another matter entirely. Both Japanese and synthetic waterstones require water in order to cut effectively. Japanese waterstones can be damaged if used dry and must be soaked thoroughly before use. Waterstones wear very quickly, revealing new layers of cutting abrasive as the swarf builds up and is washed away. That’s why they are so effective. There is always a new layer of sharp abrasive cutting away at the metal of your edge. By the way, “swarf” is one of those cool terms you get to toss around when you discuss sharpening. Swarf is the slurry of metal filings and stone grit that builds up as you sharpen. Throw that into your next cocktail party conversation and just watch the expressions of awe appear as people realize that you are a sharpening God.

Hey. I was wondering if a monocrystalline diamond coated steel good? Can u help me? Thanz

Types of Steels

Knife steels come in a variety of sizes, shapes and flavors. There are round steels, oval steels, grooved steels, smooth steels, diamond steels and ceramic “steels.” If you purchased a set of knives, it probably came with a round, grooved steel. Be very careful with this beast. Kitchen knives are reasonably tough and resist chipping fairly well, but a grooved steel can really put that to the test. The grooves in the steel create tiny points of contact with the edge. A smaller contact area makes for greater pressure on the edge. Used lightly, a grooved steel can realign the edge of your knife, though it does it fairly aggressively. Used with too heavy a hand, however, a grooved steel will act as a file and take microscopic chips out of your edge. Your edge will feel sharp because it is now, in effect, serrated, but it won’t last very long.

Coarse diamond steels fall into the same category, though they’ll generally leave a finer edge than grooved steels. They should still be used with caution and a very light hand.

Smooth steels are several steps above either grooved or diamond steels. A smooth steel will gently push the metal of the edge back into alignment. It will take longer than with a grooved or diamond steel, but you don’t run the risk of damaging your edge. A smooth steel is very easy to use and fairly forgiving of sloppy angles.

A step above even smooth steels are fine grit ceramic and very fine diamond steels. According to Cliff Stamp, “A smooth steel just pushes the edge back into alignment, leaving the weakened metal there, which will actually relax back into being deformed in its own time without any use. The ceramic will remove some of the weakened steel while also aligning the edge. The edge will be more stable and stay sharp for much longer. There is more metal removed with the ceramic and diamond rods, but you are looking at between 100 to 1000 sharpenings to remove one millimeter of metal from the edge of the knife depending on the edge angle and the grit of the ceramic or diamond hone – this is years of constant use. In general, the lifetime of most knives tends to be dominated by the occasional accidental damage that forces heavy honing.”

You quote people very well, but you don't seem to actually be speaking from experience. And, it's hard to take you very seriously on this subject when you are willing to put your trust in people who use grinding wheels.

Silly me; I thought when you posted about having read your past posts and decided you were coming across as a "snobby, elitist, asshole of a cook," you intended to correct this. I guess you just used this to salve your conscience, though, because after that you stayed on the same course. "I don't eat fast food," and my personal favorite, "I don't own a microwave," when no one had even mentioned microwave food.

Regarding your post "Did I miss something?" what you missed, apparently, is that people don't like your elitist and pretentious attitude. You have been vary active on this forum, and you have killed many threads. After you post, people don't often want to admit that they sometimes make macaroni and cheese out of a box. For example, I asked for guilty pleasures and comfort food, and you came back with some elaborate recipes which can't possibly be your actual practical idea of either. Well, unless you have WAY more time on your hands than a position of EC should allow.

You claim to be an EC; if you actually are, you must be a very young/new one, or an old very insecure one. Whichever the case, you seem to feel you are inadequate, and that you need to prove that you are not, and I, for one, am sorely tired of listening to you. Trust me, I am not the only one, I'm just the only one who will actually say so.

Let me give you a bit of advice: while it is certainly possible to be the big dog in a forum, and one who is right all the time, in order to accomplish this, it requires that you actually BE right all the time. This requires considerable intelligence, and years of experience. Oh, sure, you may be able to fool many or even most people by simply doing research, but you won't be able to fool the smart ones who actually know the field. I suspect this is your problem.

My advice to you is to mellow out, and to start treating other people as if they actually have brains. I've already started to stay away from this site because of you. I'm sure other people have as well.

And now, I'm sure I have over-stepped the bounds here. So, I will voluntarily ban myself from this site, and will not come back unless invited.

I have pissed off people many a time on this forum; do not depart either of you. You both have much to contribute and perhaps misinterpret our ability to cut through miscellany and misleading information. Or what Kelly alleges to be ?pompousness? on Matt's behalf. Maybe, just maybe BOTH OF YOU GENTLEMEN SHOULD MELLOW OUT, drink a little less caffine during the day and chill out, kiddies. Stay on the forum and remember we still adore you both.

Matthew, I hope you will remain active in this forum. I came to this site to learn and I have appreciated your input. Forums like this allow people to try to be anything that they want. However, I believe that anyone who reads the posts sooner or later figures out that some people are just not who they say they are, nor do the have the expertise that they claim. Please stay Matthew; I believe that the people in the Roubxe Forum are smart enough to see through the “self proclaimed experts”. Your posts have been insightful and helpful. Thanks for your contributions I hope that they continue.

Kelly, I was referring to you in my last post, NOT Matthew. My apologies. Kelly, your input is what I value. Guess I should not drink wine, cook, and post at the same time.

Cheers!

Also, I would hope when someone copies and pastes from Chad's Ward book, An Edge in the Kitchen: The Ultimate Guide to Kitchen Knives -- How to Buy Them, Keep Them Razor Sharp, and Use Them Like a Pro, that you would give credit to the author and his book, or site the source. Chad Ward's book is an excellent resource on knives for technique and sharpening information and he is due credit when using excerpts from his book (otherwise it is plagiarism).

I believe that quoting others, while trying to appear as the "expert," without giving credit is part of the issue that Kelly was mentioning in a previous post. Again, Kelly, my mistake on my earlier comments (mixing up names). We need your input, so again stay in the forum. I appreciate your remarks.

To Ted: I gave the credit to Chad Ward... hence the opening statement:

"In the words of the great Chad Ward:"

Before you jump to conclusions, perhaps you should read everything posted instead of skimming it because the meat of a post looks familiar.

To Kelly: Even your favorite man, Murray Carter, uses grinding wheels in his sharpening process... self admitted at that. He will finish on a bench stone, but polishing is not sharpening. As a "expert", you should really know that to begin with.

Your opening remark about "guilty foods" was 'nuking a burrito', so yes, -YOU- did make mention a Microwave, yourself. And, if you think wrapping balls of mozzarella in ground, uncased sausage is a 'complicated recipe', you have a lot to learn.

I started posting on this forum per a friend's request. I'll more than happily leave all of you to your own devices. Feel free to drop by the Enigma in Rapid City this Summer or Guy Savoy in LV this Winter for a tasting. Happy cooking.

Matthew, If you look at the title of the my previous post: Give credit to the author RE: Diamond Steels, I was referring to your post on Diamond Steels where you do not give Chad Ward credit for copying his words.

Regarding Murray using a grinding wheel, maybe I am not clear on what your definition is of a "grinding wheel." I have bought 4 of Murray's knives, I have been to his shop in Oregon, and he taught me how to sharpen using whetstones. If you look at this slide show on making a knife, you will see a slide where Murray uses a bench grinder in shaping the blade but uses a slow rotating Japanese water stone when establishing the secondary and primary edges. The link to the slide show is: http://picasaweb.google.com/cartercutlery/TheMakingOfAKuroUchi#

Also, if you would like to see Murray sharpening a knife, you can watch him on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuOlGGl97dI&feature=channel_page, where he uses whetstones.

Or Murray has 2 DVDs on sharpening using whetstones.

So Matthew, help me out, what is your definition of a grinding wheel? And where are you getting your information that Murray does not use bench stones/whetstones for sharpening?

I am here to learn, so I am open to your input. Also, I would hate to see you leave this forum; you have had some good posts.

Can you ask the gentlemen to play nicely?

I ain't no ones mama!

But you do crack me up! The boys still need to mellow out; is there something in the air out West?

i feel like i'm intruding in on a family reunion but i just wanted to state that i value both Kelly's and Matthew's participation on the forums...for what it's worth.

Kelly, it would be a great loss to the Rouxbe community to lose your presence. you have a vast store of knowledge and it seems that you understand the patience necessary in guiding those who know less than you. you would be depriving others here of benefiting from it, so i ask that you just extend just a little bit more of your patience and forbearance with Matthew and stick around.

Matthew, you obviously have a lot of passion for cooking and that's perhaps where you and Kelly clash. thank you for the tips on the whetstones by the way...though i have to admit that my minds eye glazed over a bit as that was just a lot of information for my newbie self. you also have much to share with others and your enthusiasm may be a bit overwhelming for some but i think that the forums would be lesser for having lost you.

again, apologies all around for rushing in where angels would fear to tread, but i think that it would be a shame if either Kelly M or Matthew E were to leave the forum.

thank you

It is so good when you do the paper thing. I just started practicing and I will try to find as many knives as I can to learn more, so I wilhave questions later.
great lesson!!

Hi all, I am new here, having signed up just last night. I have a lot to learn when it comes to cooking, but I have a fair amount of experience when it comes to sharpening knives and maintaining a 'scary sharp' edge.

I will tell you plainly what I use to get and maintain edges on all my knives both culinary, hunting, folding, pocket etc. It's not an oil stone, a whetstone, a cheap plastic thing with angled rods in it etc.

I also don't bother with things like stropping or polishing.

100% of the plain edge knives I own are so sharp that I can, literally, use them to shave with. In fact I don't try slicing up paper to determine if a blade is sharp enough for use, I shave the hair off my arm leaving it baby smooth. That is how sharp all my knives are. A knife with slice right through paper while not yet being sharp enough to smoothly shave arm hair.

So, what do I use to sharpen knives and how many hundreds of dollars does it cost and how much time does it take me to get the long lasting edges this sharp?

I use this: http://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Sharpmaker-Knife-Sharpener-204MF/dp/B000Q9C4AE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1261115975&sr=8-1

It's the Spyderco Sharpmaker as it's around $50. It will sharpen any knife including serrated edges, scissors, nail clippers, fishing hooks etc.

The synthetic material used in the sharpening rods requires no oil or water and can be easily cleaned with an abrasive scrub pad and water.

The technique I use for plain edge blades is the same as is shown in the included instructional DVD other than the last stage I do 100 strokes instead of 40 which is what gives the scary sharp edge to the blade (some knife steels will get scary sharp with fewer strokes, none have taken more than 100 strokes.

I can't recommend this product highly enough. No more oil to mess with, no soaking in water for half an hour, just a few minutes per knife for a blade you can, literally, shave with and the edge lasts.

Thanks for the good info Dave, I will have to give this a try. Cheers!

That's a ditto from Jayeno here in NYC, but you must have purchased it a while ago, because the cost has gone up, not a problem but not $50 either.

Um, I'm very glad you are so happy with your knife sharpening system, but I fear you are being a bit over-enthusiastic when you say it will sharpen serrated edges.

Guess what? It's the holidays...and returnable. No downside. Worth a try. Go for optimism sometimes. JMAttitude

Julie,

I hate to be a wet blanket, but I spent several decades "going for optimism." These days, I find it far more practical and rewarding to go for realism. :)

Kell doll,

Realism and Optimism are not mutually exclusive. JMO. And no opinions on this Board would qualify you as being a "wet blanket". Just remember, if you consider yourself so, dry yourself out, or you will get moldy. Hee hee hee. Happy Holidays and a Wonderful 2010!

Hello,
We just started sharpening our knives at home with the recommended whetstone by rouxbe. However, we have a sushi knife that is single beveled.

My understanding is that sushi knives are sharpened on one side? and if so what do you do about the side that curls in?
Thanks.

I saw a video once of a Japanese chef sharpening his knives what he did is laying the knife flat on the other side and just moving it back and forth to remove the burr.

This lesson has been very good for me. I have sharpen a number of my knives and have been pretty happy (Knives sharper then new). The question I have or would like to see a video on, is how do you sharpen a boning knife, as the cutting edge is a bit different than a chef knife.

I have been using the Global 240/1000 combination stone, with a 3000/8000 finishing stone(Henckel). Following the instructions in the video, I still get a bit of a concave in my 240/1000 waterstone in the corners and the ends but the middle appears to be flat. Is this normal or am I missing something in my technique? What is the recommend method for flattening out the stones again. I have seen references on the web with lapping stones or flat glass with course wet/dry sandpaper.

Thanks.

With boning knives you need to basically focus on the top third of the blade. Since it curves, curve the action of sharpening as well to get an even edge.

It is normal to get a bit of a concave on your stone - you just want to minimize it. They do sell a special stone to grind down and flatten stones, but by simply rubbing two stones together you achieve the same result.

Khaled,
Thank you for your help.

We are going to try that method.

Hey Team,

From the products you recommend in your store, and from the video, it sounds like it might be a good idea to buy two whetstones. I just bought a new Shun classic chef's knife and figure that if I maintain the edge, I might not need the 240/1000 for a long time, if ever. However, I also have an older stamped Victornox that I have never sharpened (I've owned it for a couple of years), in which case I'm guessing a 240/1000 or 300/1000 makes more sense. In general my question is: do I need a couple of different whetstones if I have a new sharp knife that I plan to maintain and older, duller knifes that I need to bring back to life?

Thanks for the help.

I've been having my brother come over and sharpen my knives for the last couple of years - until today. After watching the videos I sharpened my 10" chefs knife, 2 - 12" chefs knives and 2 paring knives on a Victornox 240/1000. I started on the 240 and finished them on the 1000. I'm not sure if that's the proper way to use the two sides, but the knives went from struggling to cut a tomato to cutting paper! It took a LONG time to do them all since they were pretty dull, but all that repetition was good practice. Thanks so much for the lesson!

Seems like you did a great job Liz and you even used the stone in the right way. Glad you liked the lesson. Yes it does take a while to get sharp, but wow does it ever make using your chefs knife a pleasure (not to mention safer). Now just make sure you hone your knife on a daily basis to maintain that sharp edge.

Hi Robert just wanted to say that I do not think it is necessary to buy two whetstones. Of course if you really get into it and you feel like two would serve your purposes better then go for it. But for now I would just buy the one and see if that is not enough for you. Cheers!

Thanks Dawn. So I was wondering. I bought the Shun 300/1000 and now am not sure whether or when to use both sides during a single sharpening. Am I right in thinking that the way to do it (for a dull knife) is: start with the 300, follow the instructions, get a pretty good edge, and then do the whole process over with the 1000? Or is it: Use the 300 until I am in the final stages (where I am going to alternate strokes) and then move to the 1000? Hope you understand my poor attempt to explain my qaundary.

Using the 300 bring your knife to a sharp edge. Then use the 1000 to polish that sharp edge. Start with about 10 strokes, then work down from there. For more on polishing your knife see Topic 6 of the How to Sharpen with a Whetstone Lesson.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

Finally got a premium membership after hemming and hawing for almost two years..I guess the price hike kicked me into gear! :)

Question: Does this lesson apply to sharpening santoku knives as well? How is it different? I'm afraid of ruining the nose on my knife and turning it into a chef's knife.

Also, I am unclear as to what grade of stone to get. The lesson says "800 is a good all-purpose stone", but the Rouxbe store doesn't have it for sale. And I also get the impression from the video that a 300 is too coarse. Would anyone mind clarifying what number I need exactly for my knife?

Santoku knives can be sharpened with a whetstone as shown in the video. If you are new to sharpening, you may want to practice for a while with one of your older knives to get comfortable with the rhythm and angle.

Here is a recommendation for whetstones from another forum thread.

The excellent video on knife sharpening does not suggest two bevels, i.e., primary and secondary, with the second at a greater angle than the first. I don't think I would want to try two consistent angles by hand. Should a good Japanese Damascus blade like the one in the video have two bevels? If so, would a rod system be preferable to control the angles?

Knives, even Japanese, don't have to have a two stage bevel, but this does produce a better cutting edge. However, it does take a very steady hand to achieve it. Rod systems are easier to control, but don't produce that fine glassy edge like hard and ultra fine whet stones, and you want this for a bevelled edge. A sharpening guide that can be attached to the knife (Lee Valley, I believe, sells them) to achieve a consistent edge will work.

I was wondering about how long it should take to fully sharpen and polish a chef's knife? The video explains the technique very well, but how long should the process take on average?

As a beginner, bank on at least 45 minutes(+) per knife. Take your time - it's not about speed; it's about getting the angle and technique correct. Cheers!

I am extremely excited because my new whetstone is 'out for delivery' and should be on my doorstep soon. I've watched the video a couple of times and am so eager to sharpen my knives. I am wondering about how to sharpen a knife with a serrated edge? Is it even possible for me to do so? I'm not thinking of a bread knife, but rather my steak knives. They are Henkle knives with a tiny serrated upper edge. Would sharpening those knives erode the serrated edge? I only remember the video addressing how to sharpen a chef's knife. I'm also wanting to sharpen my
'suduko edge' knife. I've long felt it was my favorite knife to use but I'm certain that's because it was new and much sharper than my other knives. Pretty soon, I intend to have all of my knives sharpened and my favorites.

I was referring to a 'granton knife'. I have always thought it was a 'santuko knife'. Anyway, one of the videos mentions that the grantor knives are more difficult to sharpen because the dimples are usually close to the edge (which mine are). Any advice?

Great lesson. I have been using whetstones for awhile and was shown a good trick to keep them flat.
You first have to buy a thick piece of plate glass, about 3/8 - 1/2 inch and then some wet / dry sandpaper about the same coarseness as your stones.
Place the glass on a table and then put the sandpaper on the glass and soak with water.
Now turn your whetstone over so it is face to face with the sandpaper and slide it up and down on the sandpaper until you can lay a straightedge across the stone lengthwise and crosswise and see no gap between the stone and the straightedge.
Rinse off the stones and they are ready to go.

Take care,
Andrew

The tuotrial is great but I had a few questions and hope some knowledgeable members can help me out.

So i have a 1000/6000 grit combination water stone. Since I have been using my knifes heavily and although they have been steeled before and after each use they had become dull. Since 1000 grit side is not very coarse it took me awhile to get develop the burr, more than 40 minutes but I am still not sure if what I had was the burr. Is there another way to check besides feeling for lip to form on the opposite side? I can feel coarseness/ micro serrations but dont know if this is the lip. The edge slides over my thumb nail so I am doing something wrong. I then continued the process of actual sharpening and lightening pressure and moving to a finer stone to finish. But after doing this it does not feel much different as to how it was after I developed my so called burr. I can even gently slide my finger over the edge without cutting myself :S.

Oh and I have been keeping my angles consistent.

TLDR : Is there an altenative sure way to tell that a burr has developed besides feeling for a lip?

Is 1000 grit or # stone good enough to get a dull knife back to a sharp edge after grinding for more than 40 minutes?

Many Thanks!

After 40 minutes you should be feeling a burr, and if you can't feel it, your effort should at least be bringing your knife closer to a pointed edge. Here's a suggestion:

Often, you won't be able to feel that your developing an edge while sharpening because your knife is wet. Once in a while dry out the knife, give it a couple of strokes on your steel (this aligns the edge) and check its sharpness. If its cutting sharper, not just feeling sharper to the touch, simply continue.

Now, not all stones are created equal, and they're not all on the same page when it comes to standardizing grit. Could be your #1000 is twice finer than my #1000. Could also be your knife is extremely dull and rounded and maybe made of a very hard alloy. All this being said, having put in 40 minutes is a triumph in persistence. As a culinary instructor, when I see persistence, even if it falls a bit short of desired success, I see a cook. This is a tough skill to master, and it takes about a total of 5-6 hours of total experience to just "get it". Next week I teach my pro students how to sharpen, and they're in the same shoes as yourself right now, with even less experience on a stone; but I can assure you that with 2 weeks they'll have put in their 5-6 hours after school (because they HAVE TO)and they'll "get it", and get it to the point where they would tell anyone wanting to learn how to sharpen a knife on a stone "DO IT..AND DO IT AGAIN...REVIEW THE VIDEO..DO IT AGAIN...AND THERE!! YOU GOT IT!"

Hey Tony,

Thanks for the tips and encouraging words, I will review the video once again.

Unfortunately the culinary school I went to did not give much emphasis on sharpening knives. Now I am back in India and don't have a professional sharpener to send my knives too and anyway I would rather do it myself!

You are right that when the knife is wet it does not feel as sharp, have noticed that the last few times I have been sharpening. I think that it is now cutting better than it previously was but its got a long way to go before I can get it really sharp or at least to the sharpness when I just bought them. I will spend some more time today to see if there is an improvement :-)

Will try working on it some

After viewing the lesson several times, I spent some time last night attempting to sharpen a cheap granton knife that we've had around the house for ages. This knife dulled rapidly after we got it so it rarely (never) got any use. I happened to have access to a 4000/8000 grit stone and set to work. After about 30 minutes of fiddling around on the 4000 grit side, I managed to get a burr. After about 10 minutes on the other side I had my second burr. Working it back and forth with decreasing stroke counts I moved on to the 8000 grit side. Five minutes later, it is the sharpest knife in the kitchen! It cut through newspaper like butter and thick skinned bell peppers weren't even the slightest challenge! I hope that this edge lasts because it's a dream to use.

Varun, I also had a hard time getting my first burr to form. I think my problem was that I was holding the knife at too shallow an angle relative to the stone. Try increasing the angle slightly and you might find that burr after all. :) Good luck to you!

I've had a whetstone in my cupboard for months now and never had the courage to put my knives to it, becasue I did not think it could be as easy as Dawn makes it look, and I was afraid that I'd completely ruin my knives.

It took a while to get a feal for keeping the angle steady, and to recignize what a burr feels like. Actually, my daughter saw me and asked "how can you tell when you're done?" so I tried to have her feel the burr. When I noticed that there was more of it in certain spots on the blade I adjusted how I put pressure on the whetstone, and slowly I started 'getting it'. Also, I remember my old drumming instructor, who told me to slow down when figuring something out. So after a while, getting into a much slower rhythm, it started to make sense.

I use the Shun 300/1000 whetstone. Using the 300 side to sharpen (start with 50 times, then 40 then 30, 20, 15, 10, 5), then flip over to the 1000 side to finish the edge (start with 20, then 15, 10, 8, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1).

The result was awesome! It slides right through the paper, and chopping an onion was amazing. Not sharp enough to shave the hairs off of my arm (maybe next time I'll work a little longer on it), but I am amazed how much sharper it is.

This is great, I am in awe of my new ability, I can't believe I did that myself :D

Hello,

New here, but want to start with nice sharp knives...so I want to buy a decent stone. I was looking at the Smith's 8" tri stone diamond system. Does anyone have this? Is a 6" stone enough or is 8" preferred..it seems 6 might be kind of small but never using one, I'm unsure. Also, the finest stone is a 1000 grit arkansas stone. Is this high enough or does polishing with a 4000 grit or above really make a difference? Thank you! this will get me off to a good start! Loving this site!

Frank C

I do not have this particular stone (perhaps someone else can respond), but in my opinion, an 8-inch stone might be easier to work with - especially if you are sharpening chef's knives. Perhaps contact the manufacturer on the grits as each manufacturer labels them differently. Their 1000 grit may be equivalent to a 4000 grit in another brand. It is confusing, however, ask the supplier which two stones are best - one for sharpening the blade and one for polishing it. Hope this helps!

thanks for the quick reply Kimberley! I will check with the manufacturer. Hopefully someone can tell me if the diamond stones work as well as the regular Whetstone method. After all the positive comments from people sharpening their knives this way, I can't wait to try it!

Most stones are available at woodworking stores if there is one close to you. I think they are cheaper to buy there than at a kitchen store. Just a little FYI.

How long should a knife last? If you loose some metal when sharpening, is there a point you throw out old knives?

Good question, depending on the quality of the knife some can last a lifetime. I have already had some of my knives for 20 years now. I suppose if it keeps an edge, meaning that is can still be sharpened and cuts well then it is still good to use.

Of course, if the handle or tip breaks off or something crazy like that then that is a different story. In that case, I would say it might be time to retire the knife. Cheers!

I didn't realize when I bought my diamond-cut steel that it does more than just hone the blade. Does this mean if I'm not honing quite properly I could damage the edge? Could I cause the lifespan of the knife to decrease with this kind of steel?

I'm not really comfortable with the idea of sharpening my knives on my own yet, so I'm wondering if I would be better off with a different kind of steel?

I find that diamond steels actually shave (more like tear) at your knife's edge rather than align it. They are handy for cheap knives and will give an edge to a dull knife, but a rough and not a long-lasting one. Though it's always a matter of preference, many of my chef colleagues with serious knives would never allow a diamond steel to touch their precious hardware. I recommend a quality stainless or ceramic steel.

Is there a recommended whetstone size? I was pricing different whetstones but they come in many varied sizes. Thanks.

A larger stone works best with a larger chefs knife where smaller stones work well for paring knives. That being said, either can be used to sharpen any kind of knife. I prefer a larger stone (8 inch) but ultimately it comes down to personal preference.

You may also want to read through this thread as this is touched upon about 8 comments above as well. Cheers!

Can you re-sharpen quality knives that have completely lost their edge?

My husband always sharpens his own pocket knife but NEVER sharpens my kitchen knives, quite frankly, very irritating!

You should be able to with a whetstone and a lot of elbow grease :-)

i am not a beginner with sharpening. I wood work and sharpen on a slow speed wheel, scary sharp sandpaper, turning tools, chisels, plan blades, you name it--even carbite steel. I could just never turn a burr on a knife--not that my knives weren't sharper that most peoples.
I got out my fine diamond plate and starting using the way you show in video. I got a burr! I sharpened the first knife--a cheap 8 inch chefs and then I switched to 1200 grit wet/dry sandpaper on a glass plate to polish it. It is sharper than it ever was--not really sharp out of box. I sharpened and polished five knives, as I was off work for holiday and had time. Then I looked at my bird's beak knife. I took it through the steps and it is as sharp as when I got it.
Then I went back to work and all of the knives in my room were dull from people using them when I was off. I was not happy, but got out my steel and put most of them back to where they will slice through a tomato, no problem. We have a knife guy that comes and replaces our knives with sharpened knives but I guess he hasn't been there since thanksgiving.
Any way this is just one of many great lessons.

I just finished looking at the lessons and armed with that and what you have written, I am going to try again to sharpen my knives. I think taking enough time to do a good job along with the right materials are essential.

I've noticed that the more expensive, higher quality knives request the consumer to hand wash the knives as opposed to placing them in the dishwasher. Any reason for this?

I think it has to do with dishwashers knocking the knives around. Where I work no knives go to the dishroom for safety reasons. With my home knifes the small paring knives that have wooden handles will dry out from dishwasher. And I have a Shun Classic that I wash and dry by hand to protect my investment, but really I never put my cheap high carbon knifes in the dishwasher because they will rust. I think when you start caring about how sharp your knife is and the proper way to cut with it, you just start to thinking about the proper way to clean it.

Well said Marion! Cheers!

I have been sharpening away. I got a good deal on DMT diamond plate fine/very fine (600/1200) with stand. I sharpened my boss's knife and the knives at the carving station. Very good. Well, tonight I was at my mother's house and she complained about a santoku that she had bought. It never was sharp. I picked up a piece of paper and it sliced right through it. Okay, I thought, I'll take it home and put through the paces. I saw it had little chips in blade. I worked it with the new plates and will take to my mom tomorrow and see if she likes it. My mom is 87 and retired from cooking at 81. I hope it's now sharp enough for her.

Just the same as I do not purchase already made pie crusts, cookies or breads, I would prefer to sharpen my own knives. Don't get me wrong, I am sure Joe Schmoe pro knife grinder would do a fine job for however much he charges, but I feel an incredible amount of pride upon completing a job that I would have previously purchased. You also find in time that the spoils of your labor taste and or work better anyway!

If I understood correctly, you sharpen one side of the knife for some time until you feel the edge folding up on one side with your finger and that's supposed to be the signal to sharpen the other side of the knife? And then you touch again? And then once this is done, you do 20 motions (or whatever it was) on side then 20 motions on the other, and gradually decrease the strokes. Did I describe the method correctly?

I'm confused whether you're supposed to start counting the motions from the very beginning once your knife touches the whetstone (which would make more sense since you know you're working both sides exactly the same amount) OR if you just start doing on side until the finger test and then do the other side, etc. - as described in the first paragraph above? If the latter, which seems to be what the video described, why not the former since it's more exact? And if the former, what's the point of even counting down strokes evenly towards the end and not from the beginning since, for all you know, the finger test might deceive you into thinking that you've created an even edge and thus the gradual stroke countdown won't do away with the error?

Also, how long is the entire process suppose to take?

Thanks for your help!

It all depends on how dull the knife was and type of steel used in the knife.
If you can feel the burr all way down the first side, you count the same number of strokes on second side to even the angle. You should if the burr again on the second side. You then work through the sides with even number of stokes on each side. Feel the burr on the first side and even the angle on the next side. The burr will raise faster each time because you are removing less of the steel each time. One knife I did, took 80 strokes to feel the burr for the first time.
I take a "magic" marker and mark the edge. The metal that is removed can be seen by the shiny steel on the edge. You want to have an even shiny edge down the entire knife.
Once you work one knife to sharp, you will have an idea of how to sharpen knives. Practice helps you learn holding the knife at the right angle and how to pull the knife across the stone for an even edge.

Great idea Marion. I have been sharpening for years but that is a new and interesting methodology. Thank you.

Like Victoria I am also wondering about sharpening serrated knives, though I am also interested in bread knives and tomato knives? I didn't notice a response yet. Also should serrated knives be honed?

Thanks in advance

You may be able to take serrated knives somewhere to be sharpened, but you will not be able to sharpen them yourself on a whetstone. Cheers!

I watched all the knife videos, and wanted to know if you would sharpen all of your knifes like the video or just ones with straight blades. For examble my bread knife can I sharpen that the same way or not?

See the comment above regarding "serrated knives", as bread knives are technically serrated knives. Cheers!

This weekend I finally mustered up some courage to take my 'good knife' the Wusthof to the whetstone. While starting out very carefully and slowly, at some point I got the hang of it again and was able to put a great edge on it.

So nice to be able to watch the video again to refresh my memory. The other knives that I sharpened October last year still hold their edge very nicely by the way.

There is definitely something very satisfying, not to mention very rewarding, about sharpening your own knives. Keep up the great work Daniel. Cheers!

I just finished "test driving" the Wusthof Classic and the Wusthof Ikon 10" Chef's knives, and decided the heftier Ikon was the one for me. I like the balance point being further back on the handle, and frankly, it just felt better in my hand.

I have to admit, however, that I am somewhat fearful of the day when I will be sharpening it. It is indeed the sharpest knife I have ever owned and I wonder if I will ever be able to get it back to its original sharpness. Luckily, it came with TWO free professional sharpenings... I may try on my own just before one of these pro sharpenings! That way, if I mess it up the pro can always fix it up!

I guess the big question is, can I ever really get it as sharp and exciting to use as it is now?

Oops.. its only an 8" chef's knife... it just seems longer!! :-)

We have an Ikon too, and believe it or not after sharpening it myself it might even be sharper than it was when we first got it. If you don't want to mess up the Wusthof, practice on a cheaper knife first. My first sharpening was almost a year ago on our cheapo 'Food Network' knives, which are also really good knives by the way, and they are still sharp.

I have a quesion. I have a small diamond stone that I usually use on my knives. Is this bad for my knives and is it suppose to be wet during sharpening as well? Thanks, Carol.

Many chefs I know - and I'm in that category - do not like the abrasive aspect of diamond steels and stones - they produce a less than smooth edge. Their only advantage is that they do remove metal much faster than other composites.

I'd keep it on hand for when you need to give some edge to a dull knife quickly.

Being very new to Rouxbe and not very knowledgeable about cooking. Even though the video on using a wet stone is very well done, I found myself afraid to sharpen my knives on my own just now. I have two good knives I purchased about 8 years ago and doing the "cut the paper" test I found my chef's knife not up to the test.

Reading Mathew E's post about Bob Kramer and Zen Blades up above I did some online research.Lucky me, Zen Blades, run by Woody Bailey is located in Portland, Oregon, my home town.

Today I went to see him to sharpen my knives and I am so happy. He did my chef's knife for $8 and my paring knife for $5 and did it in 10 minutes. He uses a 7 step process he learned from Bob Kramer where he needs to wear a respirator due to some gases. He operates out of his step van and works at the the Oregon Culinary Institute as a teacher. His van is parked there. He is very friendly and offered to show me how to sharpen my knives with a wet stone on my next visit.

If you don't have a blade master in your area I highly recommend you send him your knives if you want a quality blade put back on them. His web site is www.ZenBlades.com

Great video, thanks. For Japanese knives, like the Kasumi's/Shun's they appear to be recommended to be sharpened at a much lower angle of around 10 to 15 degrees max. The video recommends a 20 degree angle but doesn't mention about Japanese knives, although it is a Kasumi being sharpened in the vid. Would these Japanese knives hold a 20 degree edge or would this be bad for the knives? I've just been fortunate enough to purchase a 10 inch Kasumi chef's knife and it has a beautiful edge out of the box that shaves the hairs off my arms and I don't want to mess it up.

The angle you choose to sharpen is up to you, no matter where the knife is made. Keep in mind that a lower angle is harder to achieve requiring more time, patience, and precision. I recommend perfecting at least a 20 degree to get started, but once you are comfortable with the action, go for it.

As mentioned in an earlier post, I recently purchased a Wusthof Ikon 8" Chef's knife. I discovered pretty quickly that though the factory edge was initially very sharp, I had a very hard time keeping it sharp, even though I honed it before each use. It wasn't long before it was failing the "tomato" test no matter how much I honed it.

Initially, I thought it was that my steel was worn out. So, I bought a new Wusthof steel, just to be sure. I was able to get a better edge, but still nothing like it was when I first brought it home. I figured it must be my technique so I re-watched the videos on Rouxbe, watched chefs on YouTube, and though I definitely got better at honing, my knife was still disappointing.

I decided it might be time for a professional sharpening, but I had watched as a 'professional' sharpening was being done by a clerk at the knife store, and was not impressed. She was using a professional grade electric sharpener, but as I listened to the sound of the blade she was working on being ground away, I wondered if I couldn't do as well or better with just my whetstone and the instructions from Rouxbe, and save some metal in the process.

To prep myself, and compare, I took one of my old knives to be "professionally" sharpened, and came back a half hour later to pick it up. It was definitely satisfactory but still not as sharp as I hoped to achieve on my own... and so this became my "control". My goal was to get my Wusthof at least as sharp as the professionally sharpened knife and hopefully as sharp as it was when it was brand new using nothing more than a whetstone, a steel and a little patience.

I am pleased to report that I amazed myself. The whetstone method won hands down, and exceeded all my expectations. My Wusthof is indeed as sharp as it was the first time I used it, and holds the edge much better. It is a pleasure to use, and it feels great to know that I can maintain it myself. Thank you Rouxbe.

So I have just bought myself two kasumi knives, one chefs and one utility, after watching the sharpening with a whetstone lesson, I had some questions. There seems to be quite a few devices on the market for sharpening knives that you have cermaic wheels which you wet and pull though the knife. Life the Kasumi Diamond Sharpner. So does anyone know are they better or worse when using whetstones.

They work, but give you a more jagged and temporary edge. You can use them, but it's a shortcut, and like putting regular gasoline into a sports car.

thanks, I think I will buy some a whetstone instead and try to sharpen my knives myself.

Someone above mentioned how a knife can take a long time if it is made of a very hard alloy. Am I right in suspecting that this is the case for cheaper knives; ie. in order to keep the most customers happy they assume the people buying cheap knives won't sharpen them, and therefore prioritize a longer life on the factory sharpening?

The reason I am asking this is because I have two quite cheap knives I've had for a while. They are dull now after using them for a long time, but I really like their handle and the size fits very well in my hand, and for this reason I am interesting in fixing them. My initial sharpening attempts of these have not been very successful, so I'm wondering if it's a lost cause to try to fix these knives?

Cheaper knives are usually made with stainless steel, which is quite hard and requires patience to break through.

It's not a lost cause, but will require more cause.

I have an 8-in Victorinox Fibrox chef's knife (40520 to be precise). Since it's a common knife, I was hoping for some advice. I'm having trouble sharpening the second side of the knife as shown in the lesson. Starting with the heel at the top of the stone with the blade facing away, I cannot get the correct angle because the handle is wide and touches the stone. I have to move the knife until the middle of the blade is the lowest part touching the stone before the handle clears the stone and allows me to keep the correct angle. I then have to sharpen the bottom half of the blade separately. Has anybody figured out a trick for this knife?

I was afraid to get an uneven edge when I did my first knife, so instead of just flipping over the knife for the other edge, I moved it to my left hand, so that you're doing that side in mirror image to the first side. At first it was awkward, because I'm right handed, but once I got the hang of it, I had no problem doing it that way. For me that was even easier to keep the same angle on both sides.

Daniel,

Your tip worked perfectly for my previous question. Thanks!

Global Knives warn users not to use steel 'steels' on their knives - They say it will likely damage them. They recommend ceramic 'steels'.

They also say that their ceramic whetstones only need 2-3 minutes soaking before use. Whereas true grit stones need 20-30 minutes as per this lesson.

How many times should I pass each side of the knife on the steel for honing? Thanks

Does the water temperature have something to do with the edge durability?

When honing, pass the knife along the steel the same number of times on each side. As for how many times, it will depend. The better care you take of your knife and the more regularly you hone it, the less times you will need to do it.

When sharpening with a whetstone, the water temperature is irrelevant. Prior to using, soak the stone as shown in the video and keep it wet during sharpening. Cheers!

Hey All,

I just saw this at William and Sonoma, and thought it looked cool, even if a bit expensive.

http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/2832913/?catalogId=19&bnrid=3120901&cm_ven=Google_PLA&cm_cat=Cutlery&cm_pla=Knife_Sharpeners_Storage&cm_ite=Shun_Professional_Electric_Whetstone_Knife_Sharpener&adtype=pla

As it's new, I don't expect anyone here has tried it, but I was wondering if you might have some advice anyway. I'm thinking it might cut down on time and give me a consistent and correct angle. But I'm worried that it might just be gimmicky.

Also, I was wondering why you don't say anything about electric sharpeners in the video. How would you compare sharpening by stone and sharpening with a quality electric sharpener, like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006IUWM/ref=s9_simh_gw_p79_d0_g79_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=14PRRB4B9GKBKCYZT92W&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938811&pf_rd_i=507846

Thanks in advance for your help. Also, just to be clear, I'm not asking you to recommend the shun electric, or against it, but just hoping you might be able to offer some advice with this purchase.

We cannot comment on the electric sharpeners because we do not use them; therefore, we did not cover this topic in the lesson. Perhaps others who have tried these items can provide you with some feedback. This thread is quite long; however, I encourage you to read through Tony M's comments (Rouxbe Staff) above in regards to knife sharpening on your own or having someone (or something else) do it for you. How you choose to sharpen your knives is really up to you; however, it is an exhilarating feeling to be able to pull out a whetstone and do this yourself. Yes, it is a longer process, but it's rewarding. No matter how you get there, the main thing is to always use a sharp knife in the kitchen. Hope this helps! Cheers!

Hi
speaking as an ex-marine engineer with a lifetime of sharpening just about everything. (But as beginner cook).

Forgive my ramble around this topic...

There is no way to get a quick super fine edge.

Sharpening involves removing metal. Fast sharpening is like hacking branches... you will get a sharp edge but not that 'razor fine' edge a cook's knife needs... Initial cutting after using a grinding tool will be good for a few minutes. This machine will be grinding, not honing... that's why it is also fast. After using it you will have a knife that feels like a razor, but this is the rough 'wire edge', which is left at the end of the blade after such an exercise. A wire edge will wear off in ten minutes or so of work.

Also there is the question of the angle at which it grinds... The Rouxbe video shows how to hone the blade to a fine angle. This edge will last.

I get stunning results using the Rouxbe training video... Before that I sharpened as an 'engineer' using ceramic stone sharpeners. Which are probably the manual equivalent of what you are looking at(?)

A wet honed edge cannot be beaten. Dry grinding produces heat and roughness... Water is a lubricant... honing with water really gives long lasting sharpness which a few swipes with a steel will keep in order for months.

No short cut here... You won't see a traditional barber happening his cut-throat razor in a machine...

PS Further above I queried the Rouxbe video on soaking ceramic stones for 30 minutes... Older ceramic stones needed this... Test: Take your stone and dribble a little water onto it. If it is absorbed (like blotting paper) you have a porous stone and it will need soaking for 30 min or so. If the water just sits there then you have a 'barely porous stone' and 3 min of soaking is enough. The simple eating of the pudding is if the stone keeps a pool of water on it while you hone... if it does your stone is wet enough. If it doesn't then the stone is too dry and needs more soaking.

Hope this is helpful.

A practical afterthought.

Before buying an electrical sharpener: Use your knife... It is probably 'nice and sharp' when you get it. It was sharpened in the factory using top end mechanical sharpeners. Not a domestic, quite cheap, device. That edge is lost in a week and it will not hone up properly with a steel. Try it.

A knife worked on a ceramic stone, as per the video, is far more sharp than when you bought it and that fine edge really keeps with a few flicks of a steel.

I use a diamond stone set. I like them. I also use auto paint paper for fine honing. It is glued to a flat piece of glass. I just bought a 600/1200 "real" stone. I still like the diamond set better.
I have a diamond steel that one of my knife maker recommend for their knifes. And a ceramic hone. I use the steels dry, but everything else I use water to lubercate them.
I also have a "football" shape stone that was my grandfathers. I remember him sharpening knives on a large round stone. You pedaled it and the stone passed through a container of water. The little stone he used as a steel and it needed oil on it.

Robert S. -- I looked at the Shun sharpener very carefully, but somewhat suspiciously. The video actually gave me enough information to raise a few red flags, and the user reviews were enough to convince me to stick with a manual whetstone.

1. it is obvious that it takes some practice and a certain degree of skill to use. I'd rather become skilled with a less expensive and more transferable device. (like a whetstone)

2. it looks to me, and the reviews confirm, that not all knives will work in the machine. I suspect that the bolster on some knives could be a problem.

3. I prefer the simplicity of a stone.

My sharpening skills aren't perfect yet, but they are coming. It is a skill worth learning,

Leigh:

I pretty much feel the same way as you. First, I ]think the new item is definitely not a cheat sheet and I prefer the simplicity of knife and stone. What looked good to me was the possibility of actually achieving the 16 degree angle, which I'm pretty sure I'm not doing on the Whetstone, and the possibility of cutting the 20 min process down to a couple of minutes. Also, I thought it was worth mentioning because although it is an electric sharpener, it is a whetstone, which makes it sound more promising than those other electric sharpeners which use whatever kind of abrasive.

Don't get me wrong, $300 is steep, especially since I just bought the shun 1000/6000 whetstone. But if it's a major time saver and just as good as a 1000 grit whetstone, it seems like it might be a good investment, even if it's not fool proof.

I guess it comes down to the contrast. I am sure it isn't better than one *can* achieve by hand, but I'm wondering whether it's almost as good, much better than the regular electric sharpeners, and a lot quicker than doing it by hand.

Thoughts?

Hi Leigh

Have you seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEpqZ2KvlI0

It appears to work in the very same way as a ceramic flat stone, but it does the work. Angles are correct, it uses water etc.

Two comments I would make are:
The brush seems to be a silliness... I would have preferred to have seen him flick it on a steel to take the wire edge ' burr off' then I would have been sure that it wasn't the wire edge cutting the paper at the end.

He cheated at the end! I would have preferred if he had just pushed the blade through the paper instead of slicing.

It seems pretty good.

But, for someone like me who only whets his knives every few months the expense would be prohibitive.

I would be interested to know how you get on if you get one.