Preview: Dark Chicken Stock

I made stock for the first time and used this recipe--it turned out great! It was easy to do, too. Thank you.

Your recipe calls for barely simmering the stock for 6 hrs. Other recipes I've seen say simmer only 1 hr. Is the amount of flavor proportionately greater in the longer-simmered stock?

Short answer:
There IS a point where you will not extract any more flavor from bones and/or vegetables. A slow simmer results in a slower extraction process and is used to produce a very clear stock. We suggest 4 to 6 hours at a very slow simmer for best results.

Longer Answer: Let me first start off by talking about what a stock is - it is flavored water. That's it. Making a stock is like making tea where you are simply infusing flavor into water to use as a base for a: e.g. sauce, soup, braised dish, etc.

With that out of the way, there are no absolutes with stocks. You simmer to extract flavor and if you like the flavor you have reached after 1 or 2 hours, then so be it. It will still produce an end-dish that will be better than if you simply added plain water. And unlike tea, you can even cook a stock longer without causing the stock to degrade in flavor. You won't be extracting any more flavor after a certain point, but rather you will start concentrating the flavors through reduction.

So remember - no absolutes. If you want to add tomatoes and more thyme to adjust the base flavor, then go ahead. This is where stock making gets fun and begins to take on your own personal culinary character.

I made this stock yesterday. Instead of my usual short cut methods, I followed the recipe. this is some of the best stock I've ever made. I did simmer for 6 hours. It was very gellatenous when cooled. I can't wait to use this stock. I also put the stock in ziplock bags, laying flat in the freezer. I had 8 bags which hardly took any room...awesome!

Fantastic stock. I've used it in meat dumplings and almost anywhere "water" is needed in a recipe. I too have a gelatinous mass in my fridge which I enjoy scooping out and enriching my, now superior, dishes. Thanks guys! 100%

I may need to get a larger one but it is difficult for me to tell from the video ...

Thank you!

Matthew

Anywhere from a 10 quart to 16 quart is good for the home cook. It all depends on how much you want to make and how much you can store. There is more covered in the How to Make Stock Fundamentals Lesson and in this previous forum discussion. Happy Cooking! Hope this helps.

Really I wanted to make this recipe verbatim. I saw that the stock pot that I have is in fact a 7 quart which I suppose it is why it looks small - especially if it were to accommodate all the ingredients in this recipe. So, for this Dark Chicken Stock recipe I take it that a 10 quart would be the minimum with a 12 quart getting the nod? I was not able to make my way to the link for a recommended pot that was listed in the previous forum as the "page could not be found" but I did find a 12 quart All Clad stainless stock pot but it sells in the high $300 range ... :)

Hi Matthew. I'd go for a 12 minimum to 16 quart (the bigger the better) as you are going to love making stock - not to mention the great recipes that will be within your reach once you have great stock on hand. Note that going from a 12 to 16 will not be that different in price. However, 12 is big enough for this recipe.

As for where to buy them, call you local restaurant supply store and I'm sure you can pick one up for around $100 to $150. Just make sure it's stainless steel. In Vancouver, we go to this place: http://www.russellfood.ca/ (interesting people think that it's only for restaurants and hotels but the public are served as well if you know).

Good luck.

I'll go and search today. As a matter of interest, could one take this recipe, divide the quantities by two - and cook in two smaller (7 qt) stock pots? Would that have any effect on cooking time or consistency of the resulting stock?

Thank you again!

Matthew.

This would totally work - the cooking time would only be affected by how long it would take the stock to come to a simmer (as there would be less water).

Basically stocks are quite flexible, don't worry too much just get in there and you will see how easy and wonderful they are.

I just made one the other day (in a 6 qt pot) and I had to leave it on low for about 6 hrs and the end result was a delicious and rich stock. What I mean is that I rarely worry about time, I work stocks around my schedule so that I make them often. Hope this helps!

of an 18 quart Vollrath Stainless Steel Stock Pot! Acquired from a local restaurant supply store ($109 for the pot, $26 for the lid) - thank you Joe G for the suggestion! Chicken bones are harder to come by than I thought but have requested a local supermarket to set some aside as the day goes on - hopefully will pick them up tomorrow. Let the stocks begin!

Following the recipe, I seem to have ended up with two to three times the vegetables - as compared with the video. Consequently I think I was steaming the mirepoix in the first step as opposed to caramelizing them. I then split them into two pans. I did not use the product from deglazing the pan which held the chicken bones as it was beyond caramelized 0 it had burned and the taste was so acrid that I did not want to incorporate this into the stock. At the end of the day we had 14 cups of what I would call a very nice and deep vegetable stock - however the chicken was hard to detect. Nevertheless,I look forward to using this stock in future recipies.

Hi Matthew... First of all, congratulations for making one of the most important purchases for your culinary training (next to the knife) - a stock pot. Everyone take note :-)

Secondly, I congratulate you on adapting (splitting up the mirepoix because you noticed that it was steaming). Paying attention and asking questions is the first step to obtaining the results you desire. You did the right thing.

Thirdly, I would like to suggest that you review the lesson on Stock Making Fundamentals. In particular, topic number 5. When making stocks there are no hard and fast rules regarding the ratio of bones to vegetables. We suggest a ratio of 3 parts bones to 1 part mirepoix but this is a general guide only. For the mirepoix, half onions and half celery, carrots and leaks. So next time, forget the recipe altogether and eyeball it. If in the end you'd like a bit more chicken flavor, add more bones. Play with it.

Lastly, caramelizing the bones is important. Not over caramelizing is also important (e.g. burning). So you did the right thing to trust your judgment. The subsequent lesson in the Stock Section on How to Make Dark Stock will provide some great technique for you.

Great work. Try another small batch after you review these lessons and then let's make something with it. If you need suggestions, click on the 'Contact Us' link on the bottom of the page and we'll suggest a few great starter recipes.

This is the key to setting yourself up for some great results in the kitchen. The first recipe I tried from Rouxbe was the Chicken Marsala and I used store bought stock. The second recipe I tried was this one for the dark stock. I reattempted the Chicken Marsala and was blown away at the difference in quality.

Since that time I've pretty much always had some home made dark stock on hand in the freezer. My only gripe is that my oven is too small to adequately roast everything all at once so I find myself doing the vegetables and bones separately, and even then, sometimes the bones in batches. Once it all gets thrown into the pot though, it's smooth sailing and I can pretty much let it do it's thing once it's come to a gentle simmer.

I can't stress how awesome having your own dark stock on hand is. Ridiculously good pan sauces, braising liquids, etc., are all so easily attainable now.

I made stock yesterday, which looks delicious. However, I woke up this morning and there is no thick layer of fat at the top (I put the pot in the refrigerater). Does this indicate that most of the fat emulsified?

-I hope it all wasnt for naught...

Hi Rosi,
You didn't do anything wrong. Either you did a great job of skimming during cooking or there was just not a lot of fat on the bones. Also, sometimes the stock can be super gelatinous and other times not so much. It all depends on the bones used. If it tastes great, that's all that matters. Great job!

There is not always a big layer of fat on top. Perhaps the bones you used wasn't very fatty. Don't worry Rosi, if it tastes good then you are fine. Curious...did the stock thicken (get more gelatinous) in the refrigerator?

The stock did not get more gelatinous. Could my refrigerator not be cold enough?

Thanks! I'm just going to stick to "having done a great job skimming"!

As far as the temperature of your refrigerator...I suggest using a fridge thermometer. I have one that I keep in the fridge at all times. This way I always know that my refrigerator is at the correct temperature.

I also have an oven-proof thermometer for my oven, as appliances are most often slightly out when it comes to temperatures. Hope this helps!

I made chicken short stock yesterday. I had to use chicken legs as I have no easy access to chicken bones. I followed the recipe and used good quality canned chicken stock rather than water. The recipe calls for adding 2 liters of chicken quarts. The beginning of the recipe has the statement Serves 5L. Is this recipe supposed to make 5L? Am I reading the recipe wrong? In other words, adding 2 L should not yield 5L

Jorge

Thanks for the catch. The recipe has been updated - the yield for this short stock is about 2 L.

What other herbs could be substituted for the thyme? Would rosemary work?

I would not substitute with rosemary as it would be too overpowering. I would maybe just leave it out or use a bit of dried thyme. You could also try using a herb blend that contains a bit of thyme such as, herbes de Provence. Just don't over do it, as you don't want to overpower the flavor of the chicken.

Are you supposed to use the whole leek, or just the white and light green parts?

You can use the whole leek if you like. I often save the white and light green part for cooking and store the dark green tops in the freezer, to be used later when I am making stocks.

Why isn't there salt in this stock? I thought the point of the lesson on "seasoning with salt" was that you should pretty much season everything as you go, so wouldn't that include stock?

Salt is optional in stock, as stock is meant to more neutral in flavor. This allows you to have more control when you make dishes later. If stocks are made with no (or very little salt) it is much easier to control the amount of saltiness in a dish. Does this make sense?

We often add a touch of salt into our stocks but again this is optional. For more information on this, watch the cooking school lesson on How to Make Stock Fundamentals, in particular topic 5 (after about the 45 second mark).

I followed the instructions on caramelizing the bones and vegetables, and then placed all the ingredients (and hot water) in my slow cooker instead of a stock pot and let simmer for 5-6 hours on low. The stock was extremely flavourful and gelatinous! Thanks for this wonderful recipe! I will not make chicken stock any other way except the rouxbe way from now on! :)

Glad you were happy with the results you got; however, we don't recommend starting a stock with hot water. Cold water helps to coagulate the impurities, allowing them to float to the surface, which makes for a clearer and cleaner-tasting stock. If you were happy with the results, that's great, but we'd encourage you to try the stove top method as shown in the lesson on How to Make Stock Fundamentals. Cheers!

Thanks so much for the explanation! No wonder I saw so much residue in the stock! But the taste was good though. :) I used slow cooker to make the stock cos I don't own a stock pot and I could just walk away and not have to keep an eye on the stove constantly. However, I will certainly try the stove top method one of these days! :) Thanks again!

I get my chickens from a local farm. They come with feet attached. I have cut them up and saved all the extra bits for stock. I have wingtips, backs, necks, etc. My question is should I use the feet for the stock as well? Why or why not? -Thanks

Good question. Indeed, you can use chicken feet in a stock.
Here is another forum thread that talks a bit more about this same subject. Cheers!

Knowing roasting and pan drippings are a crucial part of the process, is there a way to make stock from rotisserie chicken? We have a rotisserie shop we like to buy our chicken from but we would like to make use of the rest of the chicken. Thanks!

Indeed, you can use leftover chicken bones. You can either use them as is or you can roast them first. Then carry on with the same stock making process. Cheers!

So far I've only made regular chicken stock, and a failed attempt at demi glace which I now call a veal/brown stock, Both were ok, but this ROCKS!!!! Maybe I'm just getting better at following directions?!

I will never again bother with just a straight boring bland clear chicken stock. Or maybe I will once I finish all the lessons and understand why one would pick that over this.

The aroma from the roasted chicken feet and left over roasted carcasses is AMAZING.

I can actually taste this "Flavored Water" (thanks a million for making that clear to me, Joe G.!)

I wasn't sure if it was going to work adding frozen left-over roasted chicken carcasses that I've been saving along with the raw frozen chicken feet as I couldn't find any chicken necks, backs etc. unbelievable!

So I ended up re-roasting the left-over roasted chicken carcasses and roasted the raw chicken feet. Along with the mirepoix this took all day just to roast!!!

I do have one question...

I didn't follow the directions exactly as far as roasting the mirepoix as far as using tin foil. I just oiled up my half-sheet and roasted on that.

When the roasting process of the mirepoix was finished, it seems to me I missed an opportunity for more of that grand suc flavor by not deglazing the pan the mirepois was roasting in.

I only dumped the mirepoix into the pot without deglazing it because part of the pan had black burned bits and frankly I was tired of the marathon roasting day I had been struggling with.

I didn't know I could re-roast a previously roasted chicken carcass and it took about the same amount of time the raw chicken feet took. I had far more sucs with the previously roasted chicken carcasses and much more flavor and aroma. Hummmm.... this is fun!

Could you please comment on why you would skip the tin foil and just roast the mirepoix, then deglaze that as well?

I really think I should have deglazed the mirepoix and added it to the mix.

I'm thinking there's not much coagulation that's going to go on in a previously roasted chicken carcass, but if you add half raw chicken feet you may end up with the same viscosity or "congeniality" as you wanted.

Please comment.

thanks!

Ok, this may be over the top, but I usually make about 16 to 20 quarts worth of chicken bone/water in my stock pot.

I'm not very happy to make such a small amount given the amount of cost of energy it takes to do this all day marathon.

that's not your fault, it's mine for not finding enough chicken bones to fill a 20 qt pot.

In any event since this is the smallest batch I've ever made...as I skim the surface for grease and what-not, I know I'm taking valuable liquid stock out in the process.

I was thinking of taking that grease-filled bowl of the skimming and placing it in the frig to let the grease rise to the top so I can skim it off, then take the small amount of left over stock and add it back to the pot instead of water as it evaporates.

Usually I have a much larger batch and wouldn't care about losing that little bit of flavorful stock and throw it in the trash.

So, I would like to hear your comments on this.

Thank Rouxbe, you are going to make a world-class-home-cook out of me yet!

This stock came out perfect and tastes so wonderful I could just sit here and drink it all up!!

p.s. the pre-roasted frozen--re-roasted chicken carcasses along with the roasted raw feet came out perfect. Perfect texture and tastes amazing.

Thanks Rouxbe, you're going to make a gourmet cook out of me yet!

Is it my imagination or is there less scum rising to the surface on dark chicken stock as opposed to white chicken stock?

Made white yesterday, today making roasted dark. There looks like less scum in this batch than the white.

Thanks!

No, it's not your imagination, Jude. If you caramelize the bones prior to making stock, the impurities on the surface actually coagulate and tend to make the stock less scummy or cloudy. Nice work on the stock making...sounds like you're all stocked up for a while :)

what is wrong with using an excellent quality aluminum stock pot? i think it was mentioned here that stainless steel should be used.

Wish I could answer this for you and I'm sure someone with expertise will be along shortly to give you a more qualified answer.

Only thing I can think of is aluminum is not exactly healthy and emits a subtle taste to your food. Cheap stainless steel is everywhere and tasteless and a lot more healthy for your brain.

The only thing I can think of as far as heat distribution, aluminum is excellent, but still wouldn't want my food to have physical contact with it. It's great in frying pans when used as a heat conductor/distributor, but again, wouldn't want it in direct contact with my food.

Just my two cents worth.

Here is a good link describing the pros and cons of aluminum. Hope this helps!

i am currently attempting my first hand at making chicken stock. i have decided to try making dark stock.

i am not certain how it's gonna turn out but i am crossing my fingers.

wish me luck!!!

I do my dark chicken stock by putting the mirepoix in with the bones to carmelize. Would this make a differece? Also sometimes use turkey necks, backs, added to chicken bones. Will this be okay?

As long as nothing burns or darkens too much (which will create bitter flavors). Also, be sure things are not too crowded or they will steam...otherwise, it should be fine. You might also want to check out our lessons in the cooking school under the stock section. Here we discuss the different bones to use, etc., along with the fundamentals of stock making. Cheers!

I've made the dark and light chicken stocks from this site with great success before. This week I was all out of stock in my freezer, but only had a couple of chicken bones I'd saved. My small-town grocer usually sells chicken backs (with all the fat and skin attached... but at least I can get them!), but this week they only had turkey necks. I decided to buy them and try it out. Is there anything else I should change about this recipe as I will be using turkey necks instead of chicken bones?

The same ingredients/mirepoix that are used to make chicken stock can be used to make turkey stock. Then again, you can also vary the mirepoix depending on the flavor profile you want to give the stock, if any.

Also, I personally love the aroma and taste of poultry seasoning, so I might had a pinch or two of that if I had it, but it's not necessary. Cheers!

I am new to Rouxbe and am making my first batch of dark stock today. I am using 2 pots, since I don't have a stock pot. I live in Houston, too, and was wondering if you could tell me where you found yours. I am not familiar with any restaurant supply stores in our area, and hope you can help me.
Thanks in advance,
Nancy

Hey Nancy! I thought I had responded to your post earlier in the week - but see that it did not make it - so here is another attempt

Link to Ace Mart store locator in Houston is here
http://www.acemart.com/store-locator.ep

Link to product is here
http://www.acemart.com/prod7788.html

Good luck! Please let me know if you need anything further.

Matthew

Can you buy chicken bones ready for stock? Or do you have to collect them yourself? Also if it is not possible to buy them, what is the best route to saving enough? Roast a few chickens and save the bones?

Most butchers and many grocery stores sell chicken bones (meaning they are ready for stock). Cheers!

Since this is my first time making dark chicken stock, I am unsure what the flavor profile is supposed to be like. I noticed that my dark chicken stock has a sweet note to it (probably due to the oven-browned veggies and tomato paste?); is this normal?

Also, I was disappointed to find that there was a bit of bitter finish, as I'm quite sure it means I did something wrong, but I cannot figure out what it was. I did my best to discard any burnt bits of veggies and I'm pretty sure none of the chicken bone sucs were burnt, but I could have missed something. I used Pino Gris to deglaze the roasting pan--could wine impart a somewhat bitter flavor? What are your thoughts on this? Thanks your wisdom!

Congratulations on making your first dark stock!

The browning of the vegetables will lend a subtle sweetness to the stock but it shouldn't be too overpowering. Because carrots can be very sweet, if you used a larger ratio of carrots to other vegetables in the mirepoix this could contribute to more sweetness.

It sounds like you took plenty of care and went through the proper stock making steps, so don't worry. Perhaps it was the wine or a some overly-browned bits that you're tasting but once you start to make dishes with the stock, the flavors should blend in and enhance the food. Let us know your findings when you start cooking with the stock. I'm sure it will be fine. Cheers!

Thanks for your response, Kimberley. So here are my findings for the practice lessons for the dark stock: 1) Reducing the stock in half and drinking slightly salted in a mug--really bitter; 2) Reducing by 75% and using as a sauce for chicken--not bad, but can still taste off bitter/sweet flavor (love the texture though, but unrelated); 3) Used in the Roast Pork Tenderloin w/ Apple Sage Jus--off flavor very faint, but still slightly detectable, so I slow cooked the apple-based sauce for an extended period to extract more of the apple flavor, and it worked. Sauce was fantastic. I guess what it comes down to is that I have to set aside a full day to redo this lesson :)

First of all Yaara, exceptional job for your own self diagnostics. This is a quality of a great cook - being able to taste and adjust. I love that you slowed cooked the apple sauce to concentrate the sugars to offset the bitter notes. This is what cooking is all about (small adjustments until you get the desired flavor). So very nice work.

As I type this, I'm actually drinking a mug of dark chicken stock. I usually have one cup a day (most days anyways). Occasionally even mine has a slight bitter note, but 9 times out of 10, it's because I over roasted something (bones or leeks usually). Next time, try roasting a bit less and compare the results.

One other thing to try to better understand how powerful over-roasted (or over-browned ingredients) can affect the flavor of a dish or recipe is to try the first exercise in the sweating lesson (garlic clove and water). It's really amazing and really quick to try.

http://rouxbe.com/cooking-school/lessons/200-how-to-sweat-ingredients/practice

Keep up the great work.
Cheers, joe

Thanks for the positive feedback, Joe. The garlic experiment was enlightening. I'll definitely try to roast the bones a little less next time and see how the flavor of the dark stock is affected.

After reading a reference to pressure cooker chicken stock in Michael Ruhlman's blog I decided to give it a try and the results were remarkable. I used a 10qt pressure cooker and based the approach on the following article (http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipes/From-the-Test-Kitchen-Perfect-Pressure-Cooker-Chicken-Stock) and it was almost as good as the traditional method from Rouxbe that I've been following for the past year. The yield was about 5 quarts.

The best part was that I was able to complete the stock start to finish in less than two hours (on a weeknight) versus the 5-6 hour weekend endeavor. The stock was dark and gelatinous but lacked a bit of the roasted flavor, which was probably due to the fact that I just sauteed the carcass of a roasted chicken and the vegetables rather than roasting them in the oven. Next time I won't skip the roasting step and hopefully the results will be even better. I will still do the large volume approach from the Rouxbe recipe in my 24qt stockpot, but applying the same principles with a pressure cooker is a great alternative for a weeknight stock or when you can't spend 5-6 hours.

Is there any disadvantages of frying the chicken over roasting ( other than the mess)? Just thinking it will save time ( I'm sure one of the stock lessons said to fry so I assume no problems) ?

Made this today - was v good tho didn't quite caremelise the bones enough so wasn't as dark as it should be. Still good. I fried the bones but they didn't crisp up like in the video. Will try oven them next time ( I think it would take two hours in my oven and didn't have the time today).

You can definitely fry the bones in a pan (as per the Short Stock Lesson). It sounds like perhaps you just didn't let them fry as long as needed. Of course as you mentioned the oven method is much less messy.

Even though your stock may not have quite as much color it will still be delicious and add a lot of flavor to the food you are adding it to. Nice work!

Can I use any chicken bones or is it better to use the backs & necks?

You can use any bones but the backs and necks offer the most gelatin. Please refer to the lessons in the cooking school in the section on Stocks. These provide all of the stock-making information you need. Cheers!

My Whole Foods doesn't have necks at all - ever, but they do sell backs...they just happen to be out. They said I could buy and use whole hindquarters, with the meat and everything. What is your thought on this?

Please review the lessons in the Stock making section. We cover making stock with bones and making broth with meat still attached to the bone. The choice is up to you. Cheers!

Thank you Kimberly... I'm excited to try making my own stock as store bought stock just doesn't cut it!

I am making dark chicken stock. Do you see a problem caramelizing bones and mirepoix and de-glazing on day 1. into the fridge overnight, then finishing stock on day 2?

No, this should be fine. Just make sure to properly cool the bones and mirepoix before storing in the refrigerator. Cheers!

I thought it turned out great. Please let me know what percentage of chicken backs versus necks. Burtcher gave me twice as many necks.
Should they be rinsed prior to roasting ?

I wouldn't over think the ratio of back to necks. If it turned out great then that's what matters. As for rinsing before roasting this is not a really a good idea as the moisture will cause the bones to steam rather than roast (as per the lesson on How to Make Dark Stocks. Cheers!

What size stock pot would you recommend buying? And is there a particular brand you would recommend? I am buying a few things and want to make sure I get the right (meaning most useful) size(s). Thanks!

The size of stock pot really depends on how much stock you are going to make at once. For the home cook, anywhere between a 10 to 16 qt should be good. With that said, lately I have been making smaller batches and it has been quite nice as the smaller amount is just easier to deal with all around. The only draw back, of course, is that we have to make it more often.

Whichever pot you decide to buy, just be sure it is has a thick enough bottom so ingredients don't burn if you decide to caramelize the mirepoix etc.

As far as brands, there are so many. Here is a link to some that we sell through our store from Cuisinart. You may also want to check out your local restaurant supply store.

If you search for Size of Stock Pot in the search field you will also find quite a few other discussions on this subject that you may find helpful. Good luck and happy stock making. Cheers!