Preview: Demi-Glace | Glace de Viande

After I cooled the stock overnight, I expected a layer of fat to set for removal. Instead, the entire stock had gelled, and there was no layer of fat on top - rather it seems as the fat and stock gelled together in the top 2 inches of the pot. This layer was slightly lighter than the pure gel beneath. It is possible that there was not much fat, as I did skim during the stock preparation. If anyone can explain this experience (and the best way to deal with it), I'd appreciate it!

I used 5-6 joint ends and several meaty neck bones and the stock is very dark and rich. Today I will finish the reduction.

Sounds like you skimmed off the fat during cooking which is great. The gel is perfect by the way as this is the natural gelatin from the knuckle bones. The two different layers are fine, don't worry about it. This happens often. Simply simmer now to reduce and then you are done. Congratulations. See peppercorn steak on how to turn this into a great sauce.

Nice work.
Joe

Last night I pulled one of our frozen squares from the freezer and made a delicious bordelaise to serve over some bacon wrapped beef fillets. I have previously used demi-glace gold - a prepared demi available in markets. Not bad, but from now on, I will always have the real thing on hand (even though it took all weekend!). The sauce was richer and more flavorful with the real deal - and the texture was like velvet.

I considered making an espagnole to produce less of a 'real demi', but would not bother with this step as this recipe is perfect for me.

The video recipe shows the chef boiling her stock. The stock recipe I'm using from Anthony Bourdain's Les Halles cookbook (p. 38) forbids boiling--simmer instead. I have heard the no-boil rule for stock elsewhere as well.

What are the benefits of boiling vs. not boiling stock? Or does this boil down to one chef's preference over another's?

I made the stock... but then before reducing the second time. I browned more diced leeks, carrots , celery, and onions, then added the stock and added a bottle of red wine and reduced further...buidling more flavor and layers...

Boiling stock limits flavour extraction.When protien is heated at too high a heat it contracts and gives out less flavour. this is why we grill steaks, not bring them to boil and serve. The other reason you don't want to boil stock, is the Final yeild. The agitation of boiling breaks little tiny bits of material off the vegetables, then as they cook they swell and absorb stock, upon straining all this absorbed matter is left in your China cap, or straining devise.

Oh and it is easier to skim fat off a simmer. As well, it is always easier to skim fat off before you add your veggies. And veggies give all their flavour in just a couple of hours, so you can always add them much later.

I hope that sheds some light. And The les halles cook book is fun, but be cautioned when using recipes from Bourdain, as he is Famous for his witty writing not cooking. If you want to be enlightened on French Bistro Fare, pick up Bouchon by Thomas Keller, that is if it is not in your collection. Everyone should own that book.

idealno

The fat is in the matrix of collagen. There are several things happening.

Once you've skimmed the major portion of the fat the suspened protiens, and the fats (which are slightly emuslified from the boiling, even at a simmer) are fairly well dispersed. Straining won't fix it, because the small particles will still get through the mesh.

In a thin stock this isn't a problem, the liquid isn't viscous enough to really slow the movement. As the sauce reduces, the mobility of the particles/globules is slowed.

As the sauce (esp. at the thickness of a demi-glace) cools, it gets thicker, further slowing the motion.

I did a heavy reduction of the turkey carcass from thanksgiving, and the top 3 inches (in a qt. mason jar) have a delicate cloud, fading down the "clear" stock).

It doesn't hurt the flavor. If you need a clear sauce, just unmold the stock, and slice off the part which isn't whitish.

Have not tried it yet but the video certainly showed me it was easy Thanks!

Boiling doesn't cause any greater contraction of protiens than grilling (grilling, in fact has higher heats at the point of conduction).

Protiens coagulate, and denature, at specific temperatures (which varies by protein). The reason to use a low boil/simmer isn't the heat (they are the same, 212F/100C) but the agitation. At a high boil the oxygen leaving the solution causes more motion, which knock protiens apart, which makes the stock/soup/broth/sauce cloudy.

Wow was this easy! Really not any harder than making soup, and possibly changed how I will do that in the future.
I just let it simmer overnight. What a special recipe.
Thanks!

I was always wondering if I made demi-glaze will I be able to use it as a stock ? (after thinning it with water of course) I mean when we reduce it we are only evaporating water right ?

Hi Khaled,

You are correct, you're just concentrating flavors and evaporating the water when reducing stock. You can certainly add water to demi glace and use it as a stock. Just be careful not to water it down too much. We often reduce stocks to save storage space in the freezer. When needed, we reconstitute with cold water and reheat.

Im sorry i am new to this term of demi glaze but is there any simple explanation of the two? Is demi glaze better as to make sauces? Thanks

Here is a video for this Cocc:

http://rouxbe.com/recipes/81-demi-glace-glace-de-viande/preview

In restaurants, chefs often used highly reduced (and concentrated veal stock) for sauces called demi glace. You can also use a reduced dark chicken stock.

When you review the how to make stocks' lessons and the pan sauce lessons in the Rouxbe Cooking School, this should become very clear to you.

have u ever heard of deer demi glaze??? im cookin it right now.. reducin´. daaaamn this takes too long!!! cant wait till ill taste it!! i spent whole weekend over this shit!! peace

could u please tell me which animals are suitable for makin demi??

The best bones are from veal as they are more gelatinous than others. Beef would be a second choice.

You can learn more about this in our cooking school lesson on making stocks.

i made the deer demi glaze and its crazy, It has a colour of dark soya souce and kind of taste like it..

What fun this was to make - and so beautiful. I was very excited to get the veal bones for free from the butcher at the tiny store I love - he was so happy to give them to me. Because we can only buy bouillon cubes here and no liquid stock (we live in Switzerland) I consider this gold. My question: Can I do something like this for chicken broth? I would love a super concentrated chicken glace. My freezer is about the size of a crisper drawer and being able to freeze cubes works so well. What do you think?

The answer is yes you can. Simply make a dark chicken stock and then reduce it. I make this all the time and it is delicious.

For more information of making stocks, be sure to watch the Lessons on How to Make Chicken Stock.

Good luck, glad you liked the "liquid gold/demi" - funny that you called it that, that is what we call our reduced chicken stock "liquid gold".

THIS WEEKEND I MADE DEMI AGAIN , WAS COOKIN IT FOR ABOUT 16 HOURS, UNTILL THE BONES WERE FORK TENDER :) DEMI IS REALLY THICK AND I DIDNT EVEN HAD TO REDUCE IT.. BUT THE PROBLEM IS, THERE ARE STILL LITLLE SOLIDS - OR LITTLE PARTS THAT I CANT REALLY STRAIN - AFTER REFRIGERATION, THE TOP PART OF THE DEMI IS REALLY NICE AND CLEAR, BUT THE BOTTOM OF THE TANK IS FULL OF THESE SMALL SOLIDS AND ALSO CLOUDIER.. SHOULD I USE A COFEE FILTER OR SOMETHIN? OR IS IT NORMAL?

You may just need to use a finer sieve or some cheese cloth (a coffee strainer may take forever).

Also when you make stocks and cool them there is often still a bit of murky solids at the bottom of the pot. I use this small amount for cooking things like rice or stews. I save the clear stuff for soups etc. Cheers!

Here are the problems I think I had

1) my bones were massive - 10lbs and only five bones
2) They were frozen so I soaked them in water until they thawed
3) I dried them first then roasted them, I noticed black chunks on the bottom of the pan so I turned the oven down to 350. They looked golden and beautiful but the stock is red (due to too much tomato sauce?)
4) I never got a decent napa while the sauce was simmering, maybe needed to cool down to check napa?
5) They are now in the frig and are very gelatinous. I cut them into portions just like the video.
6) I only reduced the finished stock by half for the demi glace. Maybe I needed to reduce further?

Problems: Not dark enough and tastes sort of like a weak broth. I was expecting a deep rich roasted flavor.

I think I was expecting a more sauce-like consistency and flavor.

I hate to waste money on the beef tenderloin if this demi glace didn't come out right. But looks like I don't have another recipe to test it on to make sure it's good roasted and beefy.

On other videos I see lots and lots of that dark burned substance in the roasting pan, and everyone just pours it into the stock pot. I think I should have done that. But it looks like it's burned debris. I think I should have just left the temperature of the oven up and accumulated more of that burned looking stuff.

Any help is appreciated!

To answer your questions...

1)My bones were massive - 10lbs and only five bones
Answer: Next time have the butcher cut them up a bit. Cutting them up will allow more gelatin to be extracted and also expose more surface area for browning.

2)They were frozen so I soaked them in water until they thawed.
Answer:When thawing bones it best to first place them bag before placing them into water so they do not become waterlogged. Excess moisture will just create steam and the bones will either not brown well or they will take too long and things in the pan can start to burn

3) I dried them first then roasted them, I noticed black chunks on the bottom of the pan so I turned the oven down to 350. They looked golden and beautiful but the stock is red (due to too much tomato sauce?)
Answer: Could be that you used too much tomato paste, hard to say as I am not sure how much you used.

4) I never got a decent napa while the sauce was simmering, maybe needed to cool down to check napa?
Answer:Sorry, not exactly sure what you mean by a napa? Are you referring to the French word nappage? And if so were you looking for the liquid to coat the back of a spoon? During the stock making process is too soon to check for this. Sauce can do this but generally stocks and broths do not. You will get this only if you reduce the stock down (like in the video).

5) They are now in the frig and are very gelatinous. I cut them into portions just like the video.
Answer:Gelatinous is good

6) I only reduced the finished stock by half for the demi glace. Maybe I needed to reduce further?
Answer: Perhaps if it tasted weak as you mentioned then reducing it further would have condensed or intensified the flavor.

Problems you mentioned: Not dark enough and tastes sort of like a weak broth. I was expecting a deep rich roasted flavor. Because the bones where so big there wasn’t as much surface area being roasted so this could account for a lighter stock. Also did you roast the veggies?
I think I was expecting a more sauce-like consistency and flavor. The consistency and final flavor will depend on how far you reduced the stock…like the video shows the more you reduce it the more concentrated and sauce like it becomes
I hate to waste money on the beef tenderloin if this demi glace didn't come out right. But looks like I don't have another recipe to test it on to make sure it's good roasted and beefy.
Answer: Practice is the best way to learn. I suggest that you reduce some of the stock down and then taste it to see if has a better richer flavor. You could also try making a pan sauce with it to test it out.

On other videos I see lots and lots of that dark burned substance in the roasting pan, and everyone just pours it into the stock pot. I think I should have done that. But it looks like it's burned debris. I think I should have just left the temperature of the oven up and accumulated more of that burned looking stuff.
Answer: Not sure about the “other videos”, if you add burned bits to a stock then the stock will generally have a burned or bitter note to it. Dark is okay but burned is another story.

Any help is appreciated!
Practice more - maybe perfect a dark chicken stock as chicken bones are generally cheaper and then move onto veal - just a thought :) Happy Cooking and don’t be discouraged, let this motivate you to figure it out. Hope this helps - Cheers!

Wow, thanks for such a lengthy explanation. Your suggestions are very enlightening!

Yes, nappage is the word I was looking for, good to know about not checking it as it's simmering.

Unfortunately my only source for veal bones does not chop them up smaller and they come frozen. I don't have a cleaver but was thinking of a vise and chain saw--they were massive! I just realized with those huge bones, I probably used far more water than needed. So that may also explain the "weak" broth.

Great tip on thawing in a bag!

Actually my dark chunks looked like your dark chunks, weird, still sketchy on that one but I'll start practicing on chicken, as suggested.

The other videos I mentioned were on Youtube and other sources on the net which I watched long before I found Rouxbe.

I did roast the veggies but probably didn't use enough of them.

I hope this is going to be helpful for anyone else trying to make demi glace so they don't make the same mistakes I did.

Rouxbe rocks!!!

I make alot of pot roast's can you add this to your pot roast and now i also relize why my pot roast gravy is always to light ..maybe this will help i am not sure ?

You can definitely use demi glace as the liquid for your pot roast. It will add delicious flavor and color. Depending on how far you have reduced it though, it could be too concentrated. You might want to try adding 1/2 demi glace and 1/2 water (taste it and see). You can also just use all veal/beef or even chicken stock that hasn't been reduced.

This lesson on pot roasting provides a lot of information on liquids, ratios and developing flavor and color by searing the meat first. Hope this helps!

Hey guys, thanks for all the tips and I know this has been touched on before but I just want to clarify:

In my Leiths Techniques Bible it states that although veal bones are often used for their gelatinous quality, they themselves impart limited flavour so for more flavour use a combination with beef. Would you agree? What I mean to say is, would the flavour shift between delicate to strong depending on the ratio of beef to veal or would you stick to your guns and say all veal is better

Thanks!

:).. it scares me... I want so much to try but I'm worried I'm going to get all the ingredients and ruin it all. I think I over analyse everything! I'm worried if I order bones from the butcher they're gonna be not as fresh, and not the best selection (neck & back v thigh and drumstick bones etc). I'm worried if I try to save my own by whole boning chicken it's going to take forever!

I'm thinking of having a go at whole boning and rolling a free range chicken in the freezer, then using the whole chicken carcass for my first attempt at stock...

Hi Kevin,
Of all the techniques, making stock has been the one I've concentrated on the most in the months I've been here. Perhaps the best advice I've seen on the forums is to not over think it.

Pick one type of bone, follow the fundamental stock lesson, and get started. There's plenty of time to modify and experiment in more complex ways.

I began sometime this summer and usually have a new jar of either beef or chicken stock at least once every two weeks. I plan meals around that sometimes. For a few reasons, no two of my stocks have been the same, but that's fine. They have all contributed tremendously to what I put on the table in the end.

Good luck and keep it simple.

Hi Kevin,

Jim passes along the best advice. Don't over think it. If this is your first try at making dark stocks though, start with a Dark Chicken stock. the ingredients are very inexpensive and about the only thing that can happen negatively is that you a) over caramelize the bones or mirepoix (which would impart a slightly bitter flavor to your stock) or you boil it accidentally and your stock will be cloudy (but it's still usable so don't be too concerned over this one).

Follow the steps in the Stock Making Fundamentals lesson, bring it to a simmer and then walk away. Let it do its thing.

As for Veal and Beef. Some chefs don't really even like to make Beef Stock, but it's completely okay in our opinion. Veal, however, does impart an amazing flavor. But keep in mind that as you begin to make stocks, you can vary things up by mixing in chicken bones, lamb bones, it's doesn't really matter. What matters is the end flavor profile you want, which interestingly enough, you can even modify at the end of the stock making process when making a sauce or through the short stock method. Good luck.

Cheers
Joe

Thank you. That's reassuring. Though it's seemingly against my nature I'm going to try and follow Jim's advice and remember to "keep it simple". I think that's my biggest hurdle in the kitchen. I overcomplicate things in my head and consequently I'm disorganized because I spend too long on every stage rather than just getting on with it. It's so frustrating! I've been a member for over a year and I've only sought advice a few times and it's good to know you are available for guidance. Thank you for taking the time.

Has anyone ever made and tasted the classic Demi glace using sauce espagnole? I am curious how it compares to the recipe taught in the video. I have a book called The complete guide to the art of modern cookery by Escoffier with the recipe for the classic demi glace and wonder if it is worth making and want to know what difference there is between the contemporary version. I just purchased veal bones to make my first veal stock, they arent too easy to find. Also some recipes show using beef bones in addition to veal bones, I am assuming that may add more flavor. Do you have any experience with that and is that worth trying?

If you search for "sauce espagnole" in the forum discussions you will see a few threads on this subject. Cheers!